To not want to move to Wales?

[dgarcia85]

My OH and I live in SE London and we are about to start TTC. We both agree we need to decide where we want to live as we want our kids to have a stable home and not move around. I work at a council and earn £35K. It’s a great place to work and I don’t want to leave. I also will be starting a second consulting job soon earning an additional £10K. My OH is studying p/t and earns £20K. I want to move closer to work most likely Purley renting first and then buying when we can afford too. OH doesn’t think we will ever be able to buy anything in Croydon/London and he wants to move to Wales where his parents are as it’s cheaper and they can help out with any kids. I’m from the Caribbean originally and I’ve been living in London for 15 years and made it my home and I don’t really want to start over in another new plus. Hi Plus I feel like our mixed race kids would fit in better in London and I love my job. I know Wales makes more sense financially but I can’t bring myself to agree to it and its now causing arguments....

There's a lot of anti-Welsh prejudice on this thread. FWIW I grew up in south east Wales, there were multiple kids with mixed race in my secondary school, lived in a village in Snowdonia where there were also families of mixed race, and now in south again where it's still not unusual . Welsh education is as good as English, the main difference is lack of snobbery (which this thread makes evident!) towards other nationalities. Yes, there are funding issues for Welsh services due to the Barnett formula being ridiculous and the lack of full fundraising powers for devolved nations, but these are also present in most areas of the UK outside of the south east.

OP your partner does sound a bit evasive and unwilling to compromise which is crap of him, but please don't believe all the nonsense you're told about Wales by people who've never ventured further than Kent. You and your future children would be very welcome here! You obviously need to look around areas to check you're not living somewhere dodgy, just like you would in England. On the other hand, the chances of kids being subject to police or gang violence for example is going to be much lower here than in London where it seems to be endemic. Choose based on real evidence rather than outdated anecdata.

Yes but the point is that implying that Croydon is a grotty dump (which may be true) and that the OP would be much better off in Cardiff rather ignores the fact that Croydon is a suburb of the largest and probably most ethnically and culturally diverse city in Europe.

Croydon used to be in Surrey but now it’s all amalgamated into Greater London, in the same way as Kingston or Bromley.

I got the impression OP works for the Croydon council so wants to live within striking distance of work. Currently, they live in SE London she says, (so not Croydon).

If they go a bit down towards the M25 or just past it, the DH the probably get the countryside vibe if that’s what he wants because it’s all very villagey, rolling hills, etc etc. And still within striking distsnce of the all- important Croydon!

@GentleParent 10:13 post - I think this is excellent advice.

You're right peperthecat, if somewhere is near that London, it's automatically fantastic.

There's a lot of anti-Welsh prejudice on this thread.

Yep. it's amazing how quickly it comes out. People would never say some of these things about Birmingham and Manchester.

please don't believe all the nonsense you're told about Wales by people who've never ventured further than Kent.

Careful! Kent's where I ended up (grew up in Cardiff, via London). Bits of it are a bit Meh but the north Kent coast is beautiful.

Yy boobmoob, under ordinary circumstances OP and DP would be a prime example of a couple who could access a really nice quality of life in a regional city compared to what would be available to them in London. She's evidently very employable and could earn the sort of salary that along with even a fairly basic admin job from him would make it a no brainer unless they were the sort of people who really do get a lot out of the things that are only available in London. Which it sounds like they're not.

But that's not the road he wants to go down. He isn't saying, let's choose a city where it's diverse and we can bring up a family in a higher quality, more affordable home while still having access to a decent job market and the urban amenities you value. Moving to a rural village is something very different.

I dunno thedancingbear, there was once a post on here claiming it wasnt possible to roller blade in the north of England because of the weather. In terms of heroic stupidity, that's up there with any of the more ridiculous comments in this thread!

I love in a very rural part of the country and when my mixed race siblings come and stay with me for holidays they actually turn heads.
You wouldn't think such places exist these days in the UK but they certainly do.
I've lived there for a while and even I have no idea what the locals are on about because the accent is so strong.
It really doesn't sound like it's the right move for you OP, you just don't sound like the kind of person who would enjoy such a rural life.
I think your husband should compromise with you and stay in London
But seriously if you don't thenk you would be happy then don't move.

I dunno thedancingbear, there was once a post on here claiming it wasnt possible to roller blade in the north of England because of the weather.

It's not the weather that's the problem. It's the cobbles. And lack of sanitation.

@thedancingbear The point people were making is that it was ridiculous to prefer living in Croydon to living in Cardiff if you want culture, because Cardiff has more culture than Croydon. Of course Cardiff has more culture than Croydon itself, but Croydon is part of London, which has more culture than Cardiff. It does. That's a fact. If you want to spend your weekends getting lost in world class museums and going to the theatre then you are better off living in Croydon than living in Cardiff. (My great aunt does just about everything Cardiff has to offer but she also gets the train to London a few times a year for more culture.)

How much of an issue this is likely to be in practice when you are working full time as the main breadwinner in a couple and you have a baby is another matter. I imagine that most people in those circumstances are not constantly going to museums or the theatre, whether they live in London, Cardiff or Timbuktu.

As I recall the post concerned didn't even mention those considerable challenges thedancingbear, clearly missing a trick! Now I think of it, I didn't see any rollerblading when I went to Cardiff either. Must've been the colossal number of Welsh speakers in that neck of the woods.

I grew up in south east Wales, there were multiple kids with mixed race in my secondary school, lived in a village in Snowdonia where there were also families of mixed race, and now in south again where it's still not unusual

I've lived in north Wales too. All I'd say (and anyone for whom this is relevant doesn't need to be told it) is that there's a big difference between someone white saying their area has ethnic-minority families living there and they're doing fine, and the actual experience of ethnic-minority families. Just because the locals aren't out with pitchforks doesn't mean it's necessarily a totally comfortable existence.

I just get pissed off with people (not the OP, though I agree there are some red flags with her DP) thinking anywhere outside London, but Wales in particular, is a deprived shithole.

I honestly don’t think that’s what people think but if you’ve lived in London a long time or all your life, the pace is very different. It’s not a slight on the rest of the UK. In the same way that if you’ve lived in a remote village which incredible scenery the idea of a move to a massive city like London would probably make you weep.

I took it from the OP that she meant LB Croydon anyway. Croydon town centre is not nice, there’s no getting away from that. It’s tired and in need of massive regeneration. Other towns south of Croydon but still within the borough of Croydon such as Purley, Coulsdon etc are very nice and cross between London and Surrey so are very green. Central London and the zones closet are of course very expensive but as you move to the further points it’s affordable.

Anyway OP, personally I’d love to try living somewhere else (born and bred Londoner). Because, well, why not. So many great places to choose from. Is it possible that with the right person you’d be a bit more open to a move? Sometimes there’s the niggling doubt at the back of your mind.

That's a fact. If you want to spend your weekends getting lost in world class museums and going to the theatre then you are better off living in Croydon than living in Cardiff. (My great aunt does just about everything Cardiff has to offer but she also gets the train to London a few times a year for more culture.)

I grew up in cardiff and lived in se london for 15 years. The above statement is just untrue.

(i) There's loads going on in cardiff. You're dealing in the prejudice that everything good that happens is in london and everywhere else is a cultural backwater. There's more going on in london because it's bigger but it ain't necessarily better.

(ii) Speaking of 'bigger' let's say, for the sake of argument, that you live next to Coombe Lane tramlink (not picked entirely randomly - my best friend used to live there) and want to go to a gig at (say) Camden Roundhouse. Here's your journey. According to tfl, that's a 1h 35m journey. Allowing for delays you're leaving for your gig at 5.30 (before you get home from work!) and getting home well after midnight (if the trains are still running). Then you have to get across croydon safely.
That's the reality of living in outer london.

I didn't see any rollerblading when I went to Cardiff either.

I though rollerblading was only permitted when on your period?!

her husband doesn't think they'll ever be able to afford anything in Croydon/London

What he means is he doesn’t want to buy anywhere other than a village in Wales.

Depending on your savings I don’t see why you couldn’t buy a place now instead of renting.
Your income is good. (Just looking at one bank you could get a mortgage of £289,000 on your incomes) You just need the deposit. Loads of shared ownership places around Purley and Croydon from £80-£110,000
Even saw a flat in Croydon (full ownership) for £110,000

Just even getting a 1 bed for now as your dh hasn’t finished studying is going to mean you can save more just by buying a smaller place.

If you did move and the compromise was you lived in Cardiff I don’t see what the huge difference is between buying in Purley area and buying in Cardiff at that end of the market.

If you already have any sort of money saved I would look at paying a visit to a whole of market mortgage broker to see what you could afford to buy right now

If you are planning to be near Cardiff then there are loads of mixed race families and lovely communities.

How much of an issue this is likely to be in practice when you are working full time as the main breadwinner in a couple and you have a baby is another matter. I imagine that most people in those circumstances are not constantly going to museums or the theatre, whether they live in London, Cardiff or Timbuktu.

I think this point gets massively overlooked when looking at location. In theory it's great to have stuff close by but in reality how will you use that. I live a 10 min drive or 45 min walk from Sloane Square, hardly ever go. I spend most of my time on my closer high street. DH commutes to the city daily & often people coming from Essex/Kent have similar journeys. I now work locally & for leisure reasons we probably go into central London once a month & take the dc maybe every other month. Our weekends are full off friends, hobbies/activities etc so we don't really have the time.

Come to Barry, it’s lovely x

Is menstruation permitted in Wales?

Posters detailing the appeal of Cardiff are missing the point. Cardiff is great. But the OP's partner (and his mother) don't want them to live in Cardiff - they want them to live in Abercarn. It sounds like they could uproot to Cardiff, just for the narrative to shift from "You need to get yourself out of London" to "You need to get yourself out of Cardiff".

I know the area well, and plenty of people in Caerphilly / Newport take the same "Why would you put yourself through it?" attitude to Cardiff that many people in the UK take towards London.

If the OP's boyfriend and his mother won't budge, and this continues to be a point of contention, then the OP needs to choose between the life she worked so hard to create for herself and which suits her well, or the life her boyfriend happened to be born into. It's an enormous sacrifice he's asking her to make, and a huge gamble.

Lovely pic!

sacred looks bloody amazing! How lucky you are!

@Sacredspace. Ah, lovely Barrybados!