To not want to move to Wales?

[dgarcia85]

My OH and I live in SE London and we are about to start TTC. We both agree we need to decide where we want to live as we want our kids to have a stable home and not move around. I work at a council and earn £35K. It’s a great place to work and I don’t want to leave. I also will be starting a second consulting job soon earning an additional £10K. My OH is studying p/t and earns £20K. I want to move closer to work most likely Purley renting first and then buying when we can afford too. OH doesn’t think we will ever be able to buy anything in Croydon/London and he wants to move to Wales where his parents are as it’s cheaper and they can help out with any kids. I’m from the Caribbean originally and I’ve been living in London for 15 years and made it my home and I don’t really want to start over in another new plus. Hi Plus I feel like our mixed race kids would fit in better in London and I love my job. I know Wales makes more sense financially but I can’t bring myself to agree to it and its now causing arguments....

I think this is the thing though. You could be in a deprived town in South Wales where the standard of living is poor, or a deprived neighbourhood in London where the standard of living is poor. The difference is that in South Wales, all the towns for miles around might be like that and you'd have to go as far as Cardiff for decent jobs and amenities, whereas in London your particular area might be rough as fuck, but you are still just a tube ride away from nicer parts of the city where there are more jobs and amenities than you can shake a stick at.

Sorry, this doesn't work. If you live in Yeading or Belvedere or Uxbridge or Hillingdon or South Norwood or Bounds Green or (insert other rough bit of london/backwater here) then your journey is likely to be longer into Central london that any drive into cardiff from a sensible valleys location.

I used to 'budget' 45 mins to an hour to get to any central location, and that was from zone 2/3 South London. God knows what it looks like from some more remote places. Of course shorter journey times are available but you will pay through the nose for the privilege.

And the level of multiculturalism in South London is not comparable to other places. I mean the carnivals, mela, it's just not the same as having docks and Shirley Bassey.

We have a mela in Cardiff. Just saying. And some other things though obviously not this year.

www.cardiffmela.com/

www.skiddle.com/whats-on/Cardiff/Bute-Park/Afro-Carnival-Cardiff/13635387/venue.html

There really is more to Cardiff multiculturalism than the Docks and Shirley Bassey.

I looked at a flat in Bounds Green once. It's on the Piccadilly Line. Easy journey into central London. And my friend who lives in South Norwood is within spitting distance of a London overground line that offers easy access to the whole city. Are you sure you know what you're talking about?

I think your posts are really interesting monkeycats. I was just reflecting on what I'd seen and experienced having lived in both. It's not something I've every thought that hard about (you blatantly will have done more than I have, being from a different background from me), and I'd accept that your experience is more valid than mine, at least of London.

What did fuck me off when in my latter years in london (living in Peckham/East Dulwich - I saw the gentrification of both, more or less start-to-finish) was how many white people I'd associate with would bleat about how 'vibrant' it was where they lived, but would blatantly look down their noses at the pre-existing communities they'd moved to, and had very few friends from BAME backgrounds. Then, when kids arrived, it was 'I love how multicultured london is but I wouldn't want my kids growing up here, because gangs and that'. I often had a sense of communities living cheek-by-jowl but scarcely speaking to each other. It's not what I saw growing up in Cardiff (by and large) and I thought it was shit. Of course the conversation touches on class as well as cultural lines.

I looked at a flat in Bounds Green once. It's on the Piccadilly Line. Easy journey into central London. And my friend who lives in South Norwood is within spitting distance of a London overground line that offers easy access to the whole city. Are you sure you know what you're talking about?

FFS. Bought to you by the London Property Sales Board. Yes, I know what I'm talking about. I worked in Bounds Green for 18 months. I commuted from North Peckham - edge of zone 1, just off the Old Kent Road. It took me about an hour each way (assuming you didn't have to wait for the third or fourth bus because the others were crammed like sardines).

You could've knocked 20 mins off if you moved my office closer to the tube/my flat closer to Elephant. But unfortunately it doesn't work like that.

Well yes, if you live on the far south side of London and work on the far north side and there isn't a direct tube line between the two then it will take you a while. But what you were implying was that people who live in Bounds Green and South Norwood can't get into central London easily, which isn't true, is it?

Yes, it is true. Also you know full fucking well that the old kent road isn't on the 'Far south side' of london.

Bounds Green to an office near covent garden:

10 mins - walk to tube station
5 mins - get onto platform, wait for train
23 mins - sardines on train
10 mins - out of station, walk to office.

-48 minutes. This is longer than it takes to drive from cardiff to bristol, and much more unpleasant.

The above journey is bordering on a best-case scenario - you're doing well (and paying more) in london if you're closer than 1/2 a mile to a tube station, and pretty lucky if your office happens to be on the same tube line as your home. You can add a fair bit of time if you have to change tubes centrally, particularly as you often can't get on the first one that comes nowadays.

But you're just going to say whatever obtuse nonsense you feel is necessary in order to win an argument.

As are you, quite clearly. You seem to be suggesting that if you can't live in zone 1 then you may as well not bother living in London at all because you'll be too far from anywhere you might want to go, which is total rubbish.

Not at all, peperthecat. I lived in london for 15 years and loved most of it, though found getting around and general quality of life harder when kids came along. Try getting a three-year old with a pushchair from Peckham to Gloucester Road: bus, overground, two tube trains, and endless sets of steps and escalators.

However you posted at 14.47:

I think this is the thing though. You could be in a deprived town in South Wales where the standard of living is poor, or a deprived neighbourhood in London where the standard of living is poor. The difference is that in South Wales, all the towns for miles around might be like that and you'd have to go as far as Cardiff for decent jobs and amenities, whereas in London your particular area might be rough as fuck, but you are still just a tube ride away from nicer parts of the city where there are more jobs and amenities than you can shake a stick at.

-which is palpable bollocks, as I've demonstrated above using facts and information, because even if you live in a ropey bit of zone 3 or 4, your journeys are likely to be longer and shitter than a journey from somewhere in the lower valleys to cardiff bay, or the national Museum of Wales, or the Brecon Beacons, or the Gower, or lots of the fantastic things that SE Wales has to offer.

I'm not trying to say london life is shit - bits of it are fantastic - but your running down of other parts of the country based on zero knowledge - are pretty undignified.

There are a few posters on here who seem determined to promote london life, and let's be honest, london property, and a number of them have a declared professional interest in the london property market. It's all a bit disingenuous.

It's not based on zero knowledge, my dad's family and a couple of friends left South Wales for the very reasons I have outlined. I get that a lot of people love Wales and are very defensive to any criticism, but some absolutely ridiculous things have been said on this thread, including that the OP's job prospects are better in Cardiff than they are in London. That is obvious nonsense. If you live in South Norwood or Bounds Green you are within easy reach of an enormous number of jobs in London. The same just isn't true of anywhere in South Wales, no matter how much you might want that to be true.

We've also had people posting links to houses in Abercarn and other small towns, despite the fact that the OP clearly doesn't want to live in any of them and moving to Cardiff is the maximum compromise she's willing to make. For what it's worth, for the kind of salary the OP is on, I think it would be worth moving out of London if she can get a decent job in Bristol or Cardiff without taking too much of a pay cut. Public sector salaries don't have that much of a London weighting and so those salaries go a lot further outside the south east. That is a strong argument for finding a job in Bristol or Cardiff.

And yes, if she found a job in Cardiff, she could commute from Abercarn. But she doesn't want to live in Abercarn. She has good reasons for not wanting to live in Abercarn, not least the fact that if she agrees to it she will most likely find herself stuck there forever, or at least as long as her kids are still living at home. She is allowed to not want to live in Abercarn, no matter how much some people might think she should want to.

absolutely ridiculous things have been said on this thread, including that the OP's job prospects are better in Cardiff than they are in London. That is obvious nonsense.

-Except it's not ridiculous. The employment rate for each of South Wales and London is almost identical - around 75%. At the risk of stating the bleeding obvious, there are more jobs in london, but a lot more people. And a lot of people getting spit out by the london market because they can't make ends meet.

The OP's background is in the public sector. People have explained that a major employer in SE Wales is the civil service and welsh government - HMRC, the DVLA, Companies House, the Patents Office, the head office of the Passport Office, and lots of others, are all in Cardiff, Swansea, or Newport, and are major employers. So her job opportunities could be better in Cardiff than London. These are always recruiting and demand often outstrips supply. I know this because my first job was in central services at Companies House.

She may well earn less in Cardiff than Croydon but - let's be honest - council salaries aren't brilliant in london, and the cost of living is disproportionately greater. And there is definite scope to work your way up.

Do you have any idea how many public sector lawyer jobs there are in London?

I'm a practising lawyer working in London so I've a vague idea what the field looks like.

Where did the OP say she was a lawyer? I missed that bit. Even if she is, there are plenty of public sector lawyers in Cardiff as well. It's a capital city of a country with its own governance framework. And a much smaller population, as well as an element of brain-drain to London.

Somewhere in the last 24 pages.

The answer is thousands. Central government is by far the biggest employer of lawyers in London, and that's without even counting all the local authorities.

It academic where there are more job prospects, in Cardiff or London. Could argue that forever given that taking time to travel across London means you could probably include Swansea, Bridgend, Newport and Bristol in your search for Cardiff.

The point is they BOTH have job prospects. And OP only needs one job.

The answer is thousands. Central government is by far the biggest employer of lawyers in London, and that's without even counting all the local authorities.

But there are a fuck of a lot more practising solicitors in London than Cardiff, even proportionately. So the London market will almost certainly be more competitive.

It academic where there are more job prospects, in Cardiff or London. Could argue that forever given that taking time to travel across London means you could probably include Swansea, Bridgend, Newport and Bristol in your search for Cardiff.

Amen to that. You're looking at a job market encompassing maybe a couple of million people.

And you wouldn't be living in croydon either.

Not so much in the public sector. London lawyers are more likely to be chasing after the better paid private sector jobs.

I doubt if on the incomes you have you will be able to afford to buy someone in London that could be large enough for a family

Technically Deegee isn’t looking to buy a family home in a London postcode

Last time I looked Purley and Croydon were in Surrey. A quick look on Rightmove suggests she could get a place right now.

What do you mean by large enough to be a family home.

I have a couple of sets of friends who brought their children up in 1 bed flats. We lived in a tiny 2 bedroom house and dc (boy and girl) shared a room (7ftx9ft) with bunk beds till they were 12/14.
I think neither scenario you would consider to be a family home but they are.

We live in zone 6 and Dp gets into The City in 27mins
I can be sat in a restaurant just off Bond Street In 34 minutes

I think some areas of London are better served transport wise than others area and whilst it can take you ages to get from one area of London to another. Sometimes living on the edge can have better transport links and it is quicker to get to places.

Someone mentioned Watford and a few other towns and was trying to say that they were the very outer reaches of suburbia and took at least an hour to get into London.
I don’t know about the other places but I do know Watford on the fast train it is something like 12 or 13 minutes to Euston. It is the next stop.

Seriously studying it for another 5 years ! He's having a laugh or being done..., he would be better of getting a job in IT any language he's learning will be out of date....
Do not waste your niche legal better wage earning life on moving to a small village in Wales....maybe when he's earning a big it salary and can wfh !

I love Wales and have family there who love it but dh has niche London job.... hopefully in a couple of years/post corona can wfh ..... I still wouldn't move to a small village anywhere... I'm a city person... sounds like you are too.,

It is very important thing to fort before you get wed/ttc. Would he be the main carer if part time/studying..,
Know lots of dads that do but you need to think ahead....

Right. Wales is not Outer Mongolia for goodness sake. This house is in an excellent school catchment on a he outskirts of Newport, about 19 mins from Abercarn. Buses into Newport town centre every 10 mins within 2 mins walk, however Newport town centre is pretty crap: ok for you basic amenities but if you want a fancy dress for a wedding then Cardiff is your place. This house is 2 mins walk from the station with a 15 mins ride into central Cardiff. It is 5 mins or less to the M4. If you want to shop during the week (not weekends) it is 20 mins drive to John Lewis car park in central Cardiff. The nearest museum/stately home is 4 mins drive and there is another excellent museum within 14 mins drive. There are an abundance of pubs and restaurants nearby as well.

Most children do sport as an activity as there are so many opportunities in your doorstep.

You can walk through a field of sheep in 10 mins walk from your doorstep, be in London in 1.5 hours, the beach in 49 mins, a the foot of a mountain in 10 mins, in the Wye Valley in 30 mins, in the Brecon Beacons in 30 mins, in Bristol in 35 mins.

Do Croydon residents regularly go to the West End, Covent Garden or other London attractions?

Btw I live 30 mins walk(through parkland) to that house and I ( and my neighbours) all earn upwards of 50 grand.

No jobs or opportunities here though 😂

www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-89896562.html

Well it is a house. Can’t say it’s not a house.

Would you leave your job and life and friends to go and live in that though? Really?

I did have a look at 2 bed apartments in Cardiff however and there are some lovely ones for £250k that need no work and have much more “pull appeal.” Some have water views.

The ones in Sully have always been a bit of a dream of mine: www.rightmove.co.uk/s6p/78138613