Neighbours son with autism and all-day verbal stimming.

[MonkeyJunk]

I know I am being unreasonable, but I am also slightly losing my mind.

Our neighbour has a son who has autism and who screams as part of this (I believe). He spends each day from around 7am until darkness in the garden doing this, and I think he does it when he is inside as well. Unfortunately any movement (us, children, animals) seems to be a trigger.

He does also do this in the house but because of the way our houses are designed and because they are the end of terrace house we cannot hear it (and nobody else can).

I get it is really, really, really shit for her, but it is now becoming relentless. All day, every day when the weather is good - it means our home is not very peaceful at all and we cannot enjoy our garden at all (he seems to go into a much more shrill scream when there's movement in our garden). We've stopped feeding the birds and are letting the dog out the front yard when it needs to go out.

I know lockdown is tough, and the mother must be finding it very difficult, but it's having a huge impact on us and our family life - particularly not being able to enjoy our garden, being woken up and the kids struggling to sleep at night (we've now moved them into the front bedroom to try and minimise this).

WIBU to ask if her son can please be inside by seven pm and for some hours during the day so we can go into and enjoy our garden?

I would never send a note apologising for my child being in his own garden any more than dh would send a note saying sorry about my wife’s annoying laugh/gardening. Do your family apologise for you being?

I am losing my mind a little bit over here with 3 NT kids and take my hat off to you!

Yeah... don't ever say this.

"The things that may distress someone with autism can be pretty mundane everyday noises and stuff. Not screaming all day in the garden."

That's true but they can be equally if not more distressing to the person with autism but generally people do not apologise for making those noises or doing those things the person finds distressing.

I think some sort of rota would be fair. We’re in a different situation where we share a communal garden with another family. We have an informal agreement about the times of day each family will be in the garden as our kids are too young to adhere to social distancing.

Would you ask a person with epilepsy or diabetes to modify their behaviour so as not to distress or inconvenience you?

A lesson with epilepsy or diabetes is not screaming in the garden from dawn till dusk.

I honestly don't know how some of the parents of the children I taught, coped. I loved their kids as much as anyone who want their parent, could. But I left work exhausted. But I got to go home. I got to have weekends and holidays. And I got to retire.

But all these parents went to great lengths to try not to disrupt other people's lives too. And had to struggle with neighbours who weren't nearly as understanding add the OP.

It really isn't fair to leave the boy in the garden every minute of the day. It's not fair on him or on the OP. So give her break.

The lockdown solidarity comment would be more than a bit insensitive. Under normal circumstances, the world is OP and her NT kids' oyster. Probably not so foe this lad. His home, his school (while he can attend) and possibly respite care might be his entire world. All the time. Forever.

Lesson= person, of course

God. So many fake halos here🤨

You cannot say with a straight face that you would absolutely not mind 14 hours or so of screaming a day which would get worse if you try to go outside. You would just cheerily explained to your children why they can't go and play out and why they have to move bedroom and can't sleep when they want to.

It is hard. It is hard for the parents, but lets not pretend here that it is ok to leave a screaming child out for that long period of time and expect everyone to just be ok with it. There must be some compromise. Op is already not going into her garden to not make it worse. Other party here has to do something too, not just let him out and close the door. It is NOT just on OP to come up with what to do. Obviously autistic children have place in this world, but so do other children who too should be able to play out in their garden sometimes without the stress.

spikey since every person with autism may have different triggers it would be impossible to apologise for anything that may upset a person with autism. However 99% of people would be upset by constant loud noise.
However, I don’t even think the OPs neighbour should necessarily apologise, I just think the poster who suggests that no one should ever apologise for anything they do due to their disability seems to have no understanding of common courtesy and that everyone apologises for things that they can’t help all the time if they cause offence or inconvenience to others.

You’re not being unreasonable. You sound very understanding but you have a right to peaceful enjoyment of your property. As pp suggest gently approach some kind of timetable for garden use. It’s impossible for everyone’s needs to be fully met here. It definitely calls for all round compromise, which you sound more than willing to make.

Hi neighbour. I'm picking up that our presence in our own garden upsets (child's name) so we've been trying to avoid being out there when he is. But obviously that's not sustainable in the long term. I do understand that lockdown must be hugely difficult for you both, and want to help you out, so do you think we could have an over the fence chat tomorrow morning to work out how we can both best enjoy garden time? Let me know what time would suit you. All the best, OP"

brogley
As far as I can tell no one has suggested that the boy in question Is asked to stop stimming, just that he is not outside for 14 or so hours doing it.
Do you honestly think it’s unreasonable to suggest that The boy could spend 2 hours or so inside his house so the OP can have some peace in her garden?

Op you need to call around some fencing companies to see if they’re still working and have them erect a 2m fence.

Considering the OP has a chicken wire fence in place currently, this is a good idea before approaching the neighbour. A decent fence is likely to go a long way towards solving the problem.

I don't get not having to apologise for behaviour caused by disability. Do people with mental health problems not have to apologise for how they affect others with some of their behaviours?

Stimming can't be effectively stopped or surpressed. It's similar to a tick, it isn't bad behaviour.

With a severely autistic child you spend much of your day apologising. I wouldn't expect someone to apologise for an aspect of their/their child's disability that they cannot control, especially in their own home.

so if an incontinent person urinates on the floor you don’t think it would be common courtesy to apologise for the mess?

It is very disturbing that you choose to compare the vocalisations of a child to urine on the floor.

I wonder if NDN might actually welcome a split garden time. She must be finding it really stressful too?

gimme
I compared it because a previous poster specifically said that a disabled person should NEVER have to apologise for anything they did at all if it was related to their disability and had since affirmed that position in a subsequent post. The point had moved on from just the question of noise.

I think you don't stop moving around the garden. He is learning that if he screams, you stop.

If you keep going, he will learn that your movement is not a threat. (It might take awhile)

Epileptic fits can be distressing for others to witness as can diabetic hypos and can sometimes cause disruption to others if they happen in a public place. Would you ask a person with epilepsy or diabetes to modify their behaviour so as not to distress or inconvenience you?

What a ludicrous comparison. Diabetic hypos can be fatal. Do you imagine well controlled Type 1 diabetics are having hypos for hours every day? Most people would not recognize a hypo even if they witnessed one. Type 1 diabetes requires rigorous control, constant monitoring. Because if it isn't monitored, it can be lethal. Your comparison is ridiculous.

gimme
You understand that behaviours caused by mental health are not ‘bad behaviour’ either, right? Because your post above suggests you don’t understand that.

Smileyaxolotl1 you cannot expect people with severe disabilities to spend their entire lives apologising for just 'being' when everyone else does not do that.

Actually Smiley previous pp have suggested turning a hose on him and also blasting music at him. I'm assuming as to make it so uncomfortable that he would run away or be too scared to go out.

While the OP is trying to be understanding other posters are not. It always goes the same with these threads even when, as in this case, the OP is trying to be a decent neighbour.

You understand that behaviours caused by mental health are not ‘bad behaviour’ either, right? Because your post above suggests you don’t understand that.

'Bad behaviour' as in behaviour that is anti-social/harassing or worse. The person with a MH problem may lack capacity and not be at all responsible for their actions, but I meant legally what the behaviour is classed as. So shoplifting is always illegal, but stimming isn't illegal in the same way verbal ticks aren't. It is largely an entirely involuntary act, but with MH it isn't as directly straightforward as that.

I understand how you must feel. I don't know what the answer is.
About 15 years a go I worked in a semi residential setting for children with autism. One lad had been given the nickname 'sheep boy' by children on his estate as the noise was a bleating sound that was absolutely relentless. It was very wearing. He made this noise when he was happy, when he was distressed, when he was hungry and so on.This noise would happen virtually every minute he was awake. When he got angry he would bang his head on the wall and the noise would get even louder It was hard for his parents but it was hard for the neighbours in the cul de sac who also got very little peace. I used fo get neighbours coming to me really angry when I dropped him off back home after respite break. They didn't want him there. The situation came to an end when the lad was 23 or 24 and went into a residential setting.
I was in Tesco a week or so before restrictions and heard the noise. He was in with his carers. The noise set me on edge and immediately took me straight back to the past.

Op. I get your concerns!!!

So if your child shit on the floor you really wouldn’t apologise because they couldn’t help it.
You just sound rude to be honest.

I'm not even going to dignify this claptrap with a full reply but you obviously have no clue about disabilities if you think autistic people routinely go around shitting on the floor.

you cannot expect people with severe disabilities to spend their entire lives apologising for just 'being' when everyone else does not do that.

Exactly this.

Some people are autistic. Sometimes they will act in ways outside of the scope of "normal" behaviour. Get the fuck over it. They owe no one an apology for either their austism-specific behaviours or their existence. They don't have to hide away in case they distress, stress, or upset NT people with their autism.

Threads in AIBU relating to disability never make comfortable reading, especially for those living the life and those who care, so I rarely read or comment. Some posters show such a basic lack of understanding and compassion that it almost beggars belief, but this is only a sad reflection of too large a percentage of MN and society.

One very important practical point though about the fence to the OP - great idea, but I strongly advise you to warn your neighbour about the work several days in advance. From your posts, it seems likely that she will need to have her DS as far away and as distracted as possible while there are strangers in the garden making noise and change.