Neighbours son with autism and all-day verbal stimming.

[MonkeyJunk]

I know I am being unreasonable, but I am also slightly losing my mind.

Our neighbour has a son who has autism and who screams as part of this (I believe). He spends each day from around 7am until darkness in the garden doing this, and I think he does it when he is inside as well. Unfortunately any movement (us, children, animals) seems to be a trigger.

He does also do this in the house but because of the way our houses are designed and because they are the end of terrace house we cannot hear it (and nobody else can).

I get it is really, really, really shit for her, but it is now becoming relentless. All day, every day when the weather is good - it means our home is not very peaceful at all and we cannot enjoy our garden at all (he seems to go into a much more shrill scream when there's movement in our garden). We've stopped feeding the birds and are letting the dog out the front yard when it needs to go out.

I know lockdown is tough, and the mother must be finding it very difficult, but it's having a huge impact on us and our family life - particularly not being able to enjoy our garden, being woken up and the kids struggling to sleep at night (we've now moved them into the front bedroom to try and minimise this).

WIBU to ask if her son can please be inside by seven pm and for some hours during the day so we can go into and enjoy our garden?

DamnitDoreen my post wasn't to you but to the few on here who think that families with with an autistic member have everything their way and that everyone else is hard done by and made to suffer.

But that’s exactly where the argument has been.
There are two or three posters who are saying exactly the opposite of you. That there should be no compromise and that a sen child/family of a child with SEN should never have to change anything they want to do because the comfort or sanity of an NT person Is entirely irrelevant and unimportant.

That is not what was said. What was said is that disabled people should not have to apologise for the fact of their disability or for behaviours directly relating to their disability and that they should not be repressed or hidden away because non-disabled people might be upset by these behaviours, and ableist comments have been challenged.

OP has been advised to look into getting a fence and to speak to the other mother, I recommended some books to help explain autism to the DC in an age appropriate way. OP has looked into all of this and the situation from her end is as resolved as it can be for the time being. Certain posters have then continued talling about how disabled people should modify their disabled behaviours in order to avoid being inconsiderate to others.

I can't imagine knowing my tics were disturbing people and saying "oh well I'm protected by law because I can't help it so suck it up". It's just rude. I mean even when DH had to have an ambulance here late at night a few months ago, I apologised for the disturbance it might have caused for anyone sleeping.

And for all those people saying the child’s parents need to be doing X,Y&Z to entertain him - yes all ASD children are different but one thing they usually have in common is limited interests.
It is HARD to entertain ASD children, they often like to do the same things and they thrive on routine.
All my ASD son is interested in is his PlayStation, Doctor Who, eating and baking. He’s not interested in playing games, going for walks, he doesn’t like moving very much, he hates reading, interacting with people often makes him distressed.

His stims are silent and he presents as being NT, so luckily for others they aren’t disturbed too much by his ASD

We have our little routine now - we walk the dog in the morning (sometimes he does a HIT class online instead), then do some learning, bake or cook something, he has one chore to do then he is free to do his own thing in the afternoon (which is mostly PlayStation/ TV).
Some parents might think that’s terrible of me for not engaging with him more and leaving him to play on his PlayStation for most of the afternoon but that’s his ‘thing’ and it helps him to relax. After a busy morning he needs some quiet time away from others.
If the PlayStation and tv weren’t there it would be difficult to find something else to entertain him, he doesn’t play with toys, never has.

I just think people shouldn’t be so judgemental unless you’ve parented an ASD kid.
It’s possible that this boy’s only interest is sitting in the garden.

Is it really ok that someone has to buy their children a noise cancelling headphones so they can sleep?
It's not. It's as wrong as to say that the boy shouldn't be outside at all.
We all live together and there simply HAS to be compromise.

Well exactly Bag my son is obsessed with water and will spend. Hours in the garden playing with water, he actually does like going for walks ,but we took him last week to a nature reserve and the place was packed with people having picnics etc🙄so that obviously limits us ,he also surprisingly enjoys going to the supermarket but for obvious reasons that's off limits at the moment .

Works both ways omg my neighbours can be incredibly noisy outside when my autistic child is trying to sleep.

Mine just likes to make a lasoo out of anything he can find, dressing gown cords, wires, bits of rope... He's currently trying to whip my plants off the wall with the hosepipe. He's never played with toys. He would spend hours in the garden with a piece of old wire if he could, some neighbours must think we're neglectful 😬

*lasso even.

Unfortunately I don’t have much advice I only wanted to comment as I am in a very similar situation recently moved into a new home and house 3 doors down has a child that’s screams in the garden, my middle child 4 years old screeches back sometimes 🙈 she thought it was game

Isit really ok that someone has to buy their children a noise cancelling headphones so they can sleep?
It's not

Well no it’s not ideal and if it was my children being kept awake then I’m sure I’d be upset by it. But to say that it’s not ok sounds as though you are suggesting that it’s somebody’s fault and that something needs to be done to fix it.
NOBODY can stop an autistic child from stimming, it’s like asking you to not blink. It’s involuntary.

my middle child 4 years old screeches back sometimes 🙈 she thought it was game now ds would find that infuriating because he has experience of being cooed unkindly, but when he was younger he would have found that a joy.

Being in the autistic spectrum myself, and extremely sensitive to high-pitched noise, I have to say that if I had to put up with a screaming child in the next door garden for more than 15 minutes at a time, I would end up screaming myself, and probably repeatedly hitting my head against the fence. And considering that my house would likely be unsaleable due to precisely the noise of the screaming child, I would end up very likely to kill myself (literally) over the issue.

It is not always a matter of "understanding".

Well that’s awful @aurynne. Surely there would be other options?

@MonkeyJunk - you can still get the fence fitted now as long as it can be done while meeting social distancing. At least that is my understanding as companies round my way have been offering contactless services. You might just have to let the neighbour know when you get it done so they can take the necessary precautions with their son.

Well no it’s not ideal and if it was my children being kept awake then I’m sure I’d be upset by it. But to say that it’s not ok sounds as though you are suggesting that it’s somebody’s fault and that something needs to be done to fix it.

This is exactly it. There are lots of things that are not ok about living with disability, or being a carer. I imagine the kid's parents don't always find it easy to hear loudly stimming, or in needing to cope with people's reactions in whenever in public. They frequently need to make some pretty rapid lifestyle and career adjustments, but as a society we tend to say that's just the way it goes.

I can't imagine knowing my tics were disturbing people and saying "oh well I'm protected by law because I can't help it so suck it up". It's just rude. I mean even when DH had to have an ambulance here late at night a few months ago, I apologised for the disturbance it might have caused for anyone sleeping.

This baffles me. I couldn't get wound up by behaviour a person genuinely can't help. What you'd be 'sucking up' is just a person being themselves at home.

As for apologising for calling an ambulance, I would be really confused if a neighbour apologised for this. I saw an ambulance directly outside my house a few months ago at night and I just felt concern for my neighbours, why would anyone be annoyed by someone needing an emergency service?

OP, as an autistic adult and the mother of an autistic child I just want to say I think you sound lovely. I truly believe you want to understand and that's something very few NT people without autistic family members do. I actually think you're being reasonable but it may also be that your neighbours are being reasonable too and compromise will be difficult.

What I say next I'm only saying due to the amount of people who think stimming behaviours should be controlled. I'm sorry it's long. It is just my experience and many people on the autistic spectrum will be different.

I am considered 'high functioning' by others. I wasn't diagnosed until last year (late 20s). I have a 1st class science degree from a prestigious university and run my own business. I mask very well and most people wouldn't realise if they met me. I've been married nearly 10 years but have no friends because although my mask is charismatic and people tend to like me I have literally no idea how to continue on a relationship of any sort with more people than immediate family. I only stim when I'm incredibly distressed and that consists of flapping my arms and humming but I can mask well enough to never do this in public. People whispering or repeating themselves is extremely distressing to me. My mum learned when I was young that repeating herself would cause me a lot of distress and I'd literally do anything to make it stop so she used it a lot when I was a child to get me to do stuff like tidy my room (she did not know I was autistic). For me, this distress feels a lot like a panic attack, my chest tightens, I feel like I can't breathe, my thoughts become clouded and erratic and my head feels like it's going to explode. Everything hurts until it stops. All I can think about is escaping it, very much a fight or flight reaction. As an adult I can walk away from someone repeating themselves or whispering. Children often don't have the option to remove themselves from situations (if i'd have walked away from my mother for example she'd have followed). Sometimes triggers can be impossible to move away from or predict. Stimming helps to relieve the pain and the pressure but I'm too conditioned to mask to do it in front of other people so i tend to just suffer until I can get out of the situation and then feel like I've been knocked out afterwards for hours. My mental health is absolutely shot. I can seem normal to strangers but once you get to know me there's no hiding the weird and I spend most of my mental space trying to act normal and then beating myself up when I inevitably fail because of some nuance or socialisation I don't understand.

My son, on the other hand, would probably be considered low functioning by most. He was nonverbal until the age of 4 1/2. He's now 5 1/2 and can speak but only one word at a time and only at home, never outside the home. He has no learning disabilities as far as I can tell but struggles to show his skills as he can't sit down for even a second and won't communicate with other people. He is only now getting an idea of safety but previously would have ran into oncoming traffic if I had let him, which made it incredibly difficult to take him on walks/bike rides/scoots as he is strong. He stims when he's happy by going 'mmmmm mmmmm mmmmm' constantly and stims when he's distressed by attempting to put his head through the floor/wall/my face. His headbutts have amazing force because he doesn't feel pain the same way others do. His 'mmmmm's might sound as though he is distressed to others but they're just him regulating himself

A lot of the people saying this child should be kept inside may not realise that the alternative to being outside might be the child trying to get outside by smashing his way outside through the window using his head, as my child has attempted in the past. They might not realise that a child who feels pain differently will thrash and injure themselves and their parents when their parents try to restrain them from doing the aforementioned headbutting. I homeschool my child because he doesn't cope at school and every single day we do hours of sensory things we can't do at home - swimming, trampoline parks, soft play - to keep him calm to curtail the headbutting. Now that lockdown is in effect his dad takes him on 5-10 mile walks every day (I'm shielding) and we use his sensory diet and that's still not enough to curb his needs so I need to stop him climbing on and flinging himself off furniture or down the stairs. A person with autism who has their sensory needs met is very different to a person with autism who doesn't. We have everything at home that people would suggest, every piece of sensory equipment that we can fit into our home. It's not enough right now. The sensory equipment is expensive (we're talking thousands) and we're lucky enough as a family to have 2 good incomes because I can work evenings and weekends. Many families need one person to remain home as a carer or take very part time often minimum wage jobs because childcare is not really available for a child like mine.

I would never try and stop my child from stimming because I know how physically painful triggers can be and how much stimming can help. For some people with autism it's a behaviour that can be conditioned out of them and masked. That is not a good thing for the person, it's a good thing only to the NT people around them. When it's the choice between your own child not being in pain and hurting themselves and other people being inconvenienced it is hard to prioritise other people.

This thread has gone way beyond what the OP posted. To go right back to the beginning, she said that they can't hear him when he's in the house. So it's not a case of asking him not to stim at all, which is of course impossible. It's asking that for a small proportion of the day he goes inside, rather than being in the garden from dawn to dusk.

Fourteen hours of non stop loud noise, every day, is going to be damaging to anyone who has to listen to it, regardless of the reason it's happening. Hopefully some of the suggestions on here will help the OP to manage the situation. But if none of them work, I don't think that she's BU to ask that he has a couple of hours indoors so that she and the DCs too can enjoy their garden.

Barbie - excellently explained, thank you.

@Feedingthebirds1 exactly!

Feedingthebirds1 I actually agree with you in principle that it sounds a very easy compromise and for some autistic people/families it will be. However, we don't know how this child reacts to being inside when he wants to be outside. If he reacts as mine does - changing his stimming from self-regulatory 'noise' (no matter how irritating) to harmful self injury then I don't blame his parents for prioritising his needs.

BarbieInAMicrowave brilliantly put, thank you.

But if none of them work, I don't think that she's BU to ask that he has a couple of hours indoors so that she and the DCs too can enjoy their garden.

The last few pages have been largely about noise in general from disabled neighbours. The OP has been pretty reasonable, but Barbie is right that the neighbour might not be able to keep her son out of the garden for a few hours. The OP is sorting a fence which will hopefully help.

I don't think that she's BU to ask that he has a couple of hours indoors so that she and the DCs too can enjoy their garden.

She can ask but that doesn't mean it will be possible to meet the request. He may not be able to safely be kept inside the house, as already explained. In addition to this, he has a right to be in his own garden and the noises he is making are not classified as a noise nuisance in terms of legal recourse so the parent(s) would reserve the right to either ignore or refuse the request.

He needs to be inside the house when OP's children are going to bed. Anything else is just plain selfish. OP's children should be able to sleep in peace.