Neighbours son with autism and all-day verbal stimming.

[MonkeyJunk]

I know I am being unreasonable, but I am also slightly losing my mind.

Our neighbour has a son who has autism and who screams as part of this (I believe). He spends each day from around 7am until darkness in the garden doing this, and I think he does it when he is inside as well. Unfortunately any movement (us, children, animals) seems to be a trigger.

He does also do this in the house but because of the way our houses are designed and because they are the end of terrace house we cannot hear it (and nobody else can).

I get it is really, really, really shit for her, but it is now becoming relentless. All day, every day when the weather is good - it means our home is not very peaceful at all and we cannot enjoy our garden at all (he seems to go into a much more shrill scream when there's movement in our garden). We've stopped feeding the birds and are letting the dog out the front yard when it needs to go out.

I know lockdown is tough, and the mother must be finding it very difficult, but it's having a huge impact on us and our family life - particularly not being able to enjoy our garden, being woken up and the kids struggling to sleep at night (we've now moved them into the front bedroom to try and minimise this).

WIBU to ask if her son can please be inside by seven pm and for some hours during the day so we can go into and enjoy our garden?

@gimmecaffine I’ve gave you loads of examples of what I would do but they are obviously not good enough for you and the pretend child we’re discussing.
And yes anyone who believes they can act how they like despite knowingly causing upset to other people is selfish and entitled in my opinion.

I worked with people with learning disabilities for five years and there is a significant level of intolerance from some members of the public if any noise or body movements were made when out and about.
But there is a world of difference between that and having to listen to high pitched screaming all day every day next door while being made to stay in your house.
If the dc is behaving that way it doesn't suggest he is all that happy with the situation either.
I'm not sure there are lots of easy solutions but hopefully the fence and headphones will help.
Highlighting the current impact on OP's family may also encourage the other family to consider different strategies on their side as well.

ShayAndBlueSeeker he may not want to interact with his parents and them pursuing it may cause distressed physical behaviour, not just stimming.

Just because a person with Autism is stimming it doesnt mean they are distressed in the traditional sense. It's not something that can be resolved or classified away. Having spent the last 30 years with a person with additional needs, I actually really dont care what the neighbour's think. My loved one has to adapt/be stigmatised/be judged/'conform' in a world they cant access every day of their life. Their home is the one place where they wont be judged and have the freedom to do as they please. My loved one spends a great deal of time outside he has free reign to go in and out of the house as he pleases and will continue to do so. If the neighbours dont like it, tough.

Leaving any child alone for long period of time is neglectful. Especially if they’re distressed.

It could be neglectful, the OP isn't out there watching. The kid's mum might be regularly checking in. He might be lining things up or obsetving objects and
@bloodyhellsbellsx

You said walk, run, cycle, activities in the house and playing outside (but not too much). Activities in the house is a ridiculously vague non-answer and cycling/scooting is likely not possible. So you have a walk and a run, leaving 13ish hours in the garden.

I asked the question because I assumed the people crying about how unfair loud stimming is didn't have any concept if the reality of caring for a severely ASD kid. I can't see how you've done anything but prove me right.

Both of my autistic DC have different stims based on moods. For example when DS1 is very upset or very happy he does what can only be described as a sudden velociraptor shriek, to tell whether it's the happy shriek or the upset shriek we need to read his body language - loose limbed and flapping his hands means happy while stalking around stiffly like an automaton means upset. When DS2 is happy he beatboxes or he sings a single line from a song over and over in a variety of tones and volumes while straight-legged jumping up and down, when he is very upset he laughs in an increasingly aggressive tone until eventually he's shouting HA!... HA!... HA! but at the start of such an episode he sounds like he's overjoyed and giggling away.

YANBU

You are not asking the child to be kept indoors all day. You are not asking for him to kept quiet all day. You are asking if there is a way that you can all have your needs met- and it may help this boy too if he is being disturbed by the OP and the children in the garden. OP will get to use her garden. Allowing a child to be out all day, knowing that he is making significant noise, is not entirely fair. That is not to say that the family are having an easy time of it- I doubt that they have it easy at the best of times, so it’s probably even worse now. But in most situations, some compromise is possible and beneficial.

Yes, OP’s neighbours could choose to be offended or decide that no compromise is needed. But that may be counter-productive- what if op decides not to try and be considerate too?

Interesting. Just seems a bleak picture - parents shut loud child in the garden all day while they work/whatever in peace inside.

I would probably do some screaming of my own if my neighbours allowed screaming all day. No one I know with children with SN would be so selfish as to leave a child outside alone, especially if they were screaming/stimming/being very loud. Because they’re not dicks. Just like my friends with NT children dong let them scream in earshot if other people. Because it’s really incredibly annoying and distressing to hear.

@Brogley

Bless them, my son stalks around like that when he’s annoyed and used to do the aggressive laughing all the time. I’ve just realised he’s not done that in over a year. So nice to hear of other children with such particular similarities.

You cannot say with a straight face that you would absolutely not mind 14 hours or so of screaming a day which would get worse if you try to go outside. You would just cheerily explained to your children why they can't go and play out and why they have to move bedroom and can't sleep when they want to.

Yes---waking up my sleeping kids is the point where I would be losing my patience.

if my neighbours allowed screaming

*my friends with NT children dong let them scream^

So basically the solution to disability is just mot allow it and insist on NT behaviour? Goodness why didn’t we all think of that?

How did the chat go OP?

No one I know with children with SN would be so selfish as to leave a child outside alone, especially if they were screaming/stimming/being very loud. Because they’re not dicks. Just like my friends with NT children dong let them scream in earshot if other people. Because it’s really incredibly annoying and distressing to hear.

The picture you are painting of a child shut outside is likely to not be the case.

Do you know anyone with a ASD kid who stims? It doesn't sound like it. Stimming isn't always unhappy, as PPs have said. Most of my DB's stims are happy or neutral, he will make a high pitched noise when very happy (usually with a big grin) and wave his arms, but when unhappy it's a much quieter moaning sound. As a child he was happiest doing his own thing in the garden, and he'd often do just that in nice weather.

Your main objection seems to be noise nuisance. Is this just distressed stimming noises? Or are equally loud noises of happiness and contentment distressing to hear too?

OP can you clarify something if possible? Is the child left outside to his own devices all day and just brought inside for meals? Are the parents working inside?

The reason I ask is because that's how it sounds, and if that is the case then I'd be reporting them for neglect to be honest.

You’d report someone for neglect because their child prefers to spend time in the garden to in the house???. NOTHING in the OP suggests she feels he is neglected.

The OP has said that he is left outside from morning until night to scream and that he is brought in at meal times. I asked whether he was on his own or whether the parents monitored him.

If he is being left outside to scream all day whilst they WFH etc indoors, that is definitely neglect in my eyes.

Let's imagine for a moment that instead of an autistic child it was a young adult with Tourette's shouting obscenities 12 hours a day in the garden. Would the OP have to suck it up?

Reasonable accommodations for disability do not include making life impossible for others. I say this as the parent of a teenager with ASD. When he was difficult, it was my duty to access all possible forms of help to prevent harm to others, and, of course, work with him myself. It sounds like these parents are not doing that.

I don't think he's neglected, I do now know the mother is having a really, really shit time.

It's not my place to go into detail on here with what is happening but I am really grateful for everyone who gave advice.

@Gimmecaffeine

Activities in the house is a ridiculously vague non-answer and cycling/scooting is likely not possible

I said I would mirror what he likes to do in the garden but in the house eg- he likes to bounce, I’d buy a trampette, he likes to throw, id make a safe area and fill it with sensory balls, he likes watch the neighbours dog- I’d put a show about dogs on.

Don’t know why you find the idea of cycling or scooting so unreasonable, autism is a spectrum. My friends DS is autistic non verbal but they scoot and ride for miles daily to get him out and about. It’s not a one size fits all.

Let's imagine for a moment that instead of an autistic child it was a young adult with Tourette's shouting obscenities 12 hours a day in the garden. Would the OP have to suck it up? well if “suck it up” means people with Tourette’s are allowed to be in their gardens for as long as they like, then YES, obviously.

I'm glad he's not, it's just a thought that came to mind.

In all honesty sometimes phoning social services as a concerned neighbour can be really helpful to the family. Sometimes the last person they listen to is the parent. As a parent of a non verbal child who is extremely loud, the less sleep you have the harder to parent. The example of the Tourette’s child is not an equivalent as hopefully they will have the understanding to know why they must spend time inside. I try to manage the behaviours I can change and minimise the impact of the behaviours I cannot. Sadly where we are social services will help with items that are a benefit to the child but not others so it cost us £3000 to soundproof the side of our house with neighbours and they can still hear him.

My friends DS is autistic non verbal but they scoot and ride for miles daily to get him out and about. It’s not a one size fits all. yes I expect the fact this person spends time in his garden is an big clue as to what fits him though, don’t you?

Some of the comments on here is why I no longer describe my son has having autism and instead I refer to him having severe learning difficulties, it means no anecdotes or comparisons. He can ride a bike and a scooter what he cannot do is understand instructions to stop, to not go on the road or to basically stop from hurting or even killing himself or others.