To think people have forgotten what lockdown was for and now think they’re all going to die

[wakeupitsabeautifulmorning]

I think people have gradually lost all sense of reality during this lockdown. It’s the NHS we are protecting by making sure not too many people are admitted with Coronavirus at the same time. But normal young healthy people seem to be thinking it’s to stop them catching it and dying. Where do we go from here?

Some previous threads on this theme

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3877597-Do-you-find-the-term-meme-Karen-an-insult

and

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3860225-Please-can-we-talk-about-using-the-name-Karen-as-an-insult

Most people didn't get it in the first place. Even politicians said "it would be over quicker" when actually doing nothing would have let the virus sweep through the country quicker, huge death toll as nhs would have been overwhelmed but quickly.

The reality is that just as the government feared people can not be cooped up for long, they delayed lockdown fearing that people would stop cooperating after a month and they were not far out

(and I think it's absolutely fine if you used a term without realising what lies behind it, but the correct response in that case should be "oh really? Why do you think it's sexist" not "you can't think rationally and might have offended men called Karen yada yada".

Quite, Re: Karen. All the nonsense science on my facebook has been from 'Dave's' actually! The amount of middle aged , anti vaccinating , hippy men I seem to know is bloody frightening.

Can’t see how Karen is ageist in the slightest - please explain that one to me?

However if it wasn’t for all the Karens and Pamelas and Griseldas on Facebook or forwarding pictures of the “army rolling into town” on WhatsApp there would be considerably fewer Fionas quivering at home right now because the Amazon delivery driver put a pinkie on her parcel and she’s run out of Dettol.

@Ontheblackhill there’s an absolutely furious David all over my local community group

@Sadie789

The death rate is far lower than the U.K. statistics state because so few people have been tested. 0.5% has been suggested and 94% of those who have died had serious underlying health problems - I hope they are carefully looking at that other 6% so we can learn about whether something makes people susceptible to the virus. I had it (most likely I had symptoms) and I can say if it was covid 19, ive had many worse colds

@Sadie789 I think you make a really good point. I tenner feeling absolutely fucking awful for a few weeks with those things, and feel it is likely to be much the same. And I’m not young so also at leave with raking my chances but enjoying life while I can.

There does seem to be a polarising of opinion between remaining in lockdown to eliminate the risk and wanting to end it to restore normality.

The risk is not going to be eradicated, not unless everyone is locked into their homes for 2-3 weeks, including all medical staff which no country has done.

We have achieved reducing the rate of spead and keeping it more managable, at social, health and economic cost. The next stages need to keep the spread of the virus managable while mitigating the costs.

It is easy as a youngish, healthy adult with no known health concerns in close family and older family members having sensible shielding arrangements, to accept the rate of hazard from the virus. I obviously don't want to catch it and in most probability, have a week of feeling really crap (and anything worse is bloody unlucky) I'm taking sensible precautions, extra handwashing/ sanitising when shopping, keeping to quiet areas for exercise, but I see no benefit in getting paranoid about trying to eliminate the risk. I'm also continuing to take other precautions such looking and listening when crossing the road

I totally understand why people are scared witless. I would be too, if I hadn't been going out to work for the last few weeks.

I think people need to know normal stuff is going on and has never stopped.

Waiting for a supermarket delivery?

Who grew your food? Picked it? Transported it? Packaged it? Delivered it to your local store?

Who has been working extra hours to pick your order in a shop, because YOU think it's too dangerous to be there, but it's ok for them to be there for a 12 hour shift.....

And now you are getting your knickers in a twist over some minor detail.

That turned into a bit of a rant. Sorry.

The reality is you dont know who will get Covid and be ok and who won't.
I think reasonably people who already have compromised lungs dont particularly fancy making it worse

Agreed. I don't have asthma but I don't need to, to understand this.

@Maelwaedd I can't tell you that you definitely won't be someone who will get it that badly that it could potentially kill you. What I can say is that I was the same as you a couple of weeks ago. I have many health conditions and was terrified of getting it and leaving my children. My grandma died from it and I missed her funeral as the numbers were limited to 6 and also I was trying to avoid other vulnerable members of my family just in case I carried it or anything. Then my auntie was so bad she ended up in hospital for a week thinking she may not survive and is still pretty unwell a few weeks on. My husband works in London which is pretty much the worst place and so with my health conditions he took off all his annual leave so that I wouldn't get it.

After all that I went out once to the chemist - still strictly to social distancing - and I ended up getting it. Now I'm not going to lie to you and say that it wasn't as bad as I expected as it was awful. The amount of mucous that fills your lungs up really quickly leaves you feeling as though you're drowning in your own bed and when I was taken into hospital you could see the fluid in my lungs on X-ray and then typical coronavirus damage on ultrasound. However, despite my Sats dropping to 84% while I was in hospital I was well enough to go home after a day. It's been hard to get over - I'm day 15 today so pretty much recovered with the exception of feeling unbelievably tired. So I would say to you try to not panic too much - I found it affecting my life quite badly because of anxiety but when I actually got it I wasn't as bad as I thought I would be. I didn't require a ventilator or end up in the numbers of the dead. My son who is asthmatic is the other one I was terrified of getting it and as with most children, he and my other 4 didn't get it too badly at all. Try to not let the panic take over, stop reading the papers so much (that really helped me) and try to just get on with your life as normally as possible.

Karen in Outnumbered is way younger than me.

How do we know Karen isn’t non binary?

@mumofmany81 I think I had mild coronavirus, and my brother did as well. I've now got terrible chest pain when I breathe in and my joints are even worse than before. I can't do tuba practice anymore (which is a good thing for my cat and neighbours) as it aggravates it, as does exercise. I can't imagine how horrible the more severe kind must be.

@Tr1skel1on absolutely spot on

karen on facebook

You made my day here 😁😂😂

@Musicforsmorks it’s true though.

There wouldn’t be a Karen meme if it wasn’t for the fact that Facebook is absolutely heaving with Karens.

and I think it's absolutely fine if you used a term without realising what lies behind it, but the correct response in that case should be "oh really? Why do you think it's sexist" not "you can't think rationally and might have offended men called Karen yada yada

I've actually never used the term 'a Karen' in my life and probably never will. But please don't assume I don't understand and then go on to suggest what my response 'should' be. How patronising. You really aren't as 'woke' as you think you are. I also don't believe that anybody has accused you of not thinking rationally? I don't scream sexism when somebody forwards a meme saying what 'Steve' or 'Dave' said. Because it's not sexist. It's just nonsense. Not everything is anti-women. Out of interest, if you are so interested in calling out sexism, have you written to the PM to have terms such as 'matron', 'sister' and 'midwife' changed to reflect that men also do these jobs?

The statistics are f’ing terrible and pretty terrifying to those that can understand them but as @Sadie789 ‘s post shows, lots don’t. Thanks for clarifying @WorkingItOutAsIGo and @nanbread young healthy people are dying of this it is reasonable to be worried and reasonable to be scared.

So Sadie. What have the Pamelas done to offend you?

Lots of people on Facebook do have an opinion though. Yes the Karen thing is sexist but the point is nobody knows enough about this virus to make a balanced decision & lots of people want something to cling to.

I'm struggling to make decisions about sending children back to school & me going back to work when the time comes. We're lucky that we could probably cope financially with staying home but then dh normally gets train to work & they'll probably want most of the team back in the office when lockdown relaxes, so what's the point in the rest of us trying to be safer. I have a low risk appetite & would prefer that there was more known about the virus. The reality is most of us who catch it will be ok. Also the reality is that some of us who catch it will die. Those facts don't coexist well & make for difficult choices.

I do have a genuine question though as I've seen very mixed messages...
If you get the annual flu jab due to numerous chronic conditions should ye (i) be shielding? I've not heard or been told anything, but I always get the flu jab from the nurse when I go for my 3 monthly check up in flu season?

An absolutely tiny percentage are dying. It’s terrible for individuals and families. But realistically the stats are hugely in favour of surviving.

@PhilSwagielka I can't deny it was pretty scary. It started with the chest pain, aching all over etc. I was taken to hospital with really low oxygen even though I hadn't got a cough at that point. On day 3 when the cough and temperature hit I would have known for a fact that it was coronavirus even if I hadn't already been confirmed by the hospital. It was the mucous filling my lungs that made it scary - I had to sleep propped dead upright and tried to spend time alternating with laying on my front as advised but if I slept for more than an hour I would wake up unable to breathe. I could even feel and hear it bubbling in my chest. So I would say that it was really scary for that reason. On the flip side though I felt worse when I had actual flu before but the flu didn't have the drowning feeling and the fear of not waking up. Despite that and my many pre existing health problems, I recovered and I wanted that to serve to give a bit of hope to others who are as worried as I was.

Ohtherewearerhen, mummyofmany did, actually.
If you think I'd be offended at not being "woke", you really are missing the target with the insults