I agree with this article on older people

[Orangeblossom78]

Like many of us, i have been trying to emphasise to parents over 70 about staying in through this etc, and have been reading the several threads about others frustrated with there parents refusal to comply and get deliveries etc..

then I was reading this by Janice Turner in the Times today. It really made me think. I agree with what she is saying. We need to leave it up to them really.

How much of it comes down to our own need to feel we are 'keeping them safe' perhaps, so we feel Ok about that?

Here is the article:

The old have the right to decide what’s risky
Condemning the over-70s to long-term lockdown takes no account of an individual’s health, needs or desires

Janice Turner
Friday April 24 2020, 5.00pm, The Times
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Maybe it’s the sunshine, but something shifted this week. Social distancing in the supermarket queue has a bored, desultory air. People pass on pavements rather than leap into the road: evening strollers in the park are larkier, the mood less tense. Like a spring plant, the country longs to unfurl.

Yet the price of the majority returning to school, work, to pub reunions with friends, to regaining the million tiny pleasures we never knew we’d miss, will be the continued self-isolation of the old. Details are sketchy. The health secretary Matt Hancock has said it will apply to the over-70s for four months, others suggest the over-60s for 18. On Wednesday, health minister Lord Bethell refused to clarify if a grey lockdown will be advisory...

Link to full article (paywall).

[Post edited by MNHQ]

Sorry, 'their', I know!

💯 agree with the article

Basically, there's no point being alive if there's no life for you to live?

I agree - my mum has heart problems but has been cycling 10-20 miles every few days which makes her mental and physical health 100% better

She’s 74 - she can’t go to church, sing in her choir or get pissed on gin with her mates- cycling is her thing

Entirely concur

Very true. Reflects 100% my parents' views.

Yes really interesting article. Has made me think about the way I’ve been seeing my dm -an 80 year old with heart failure-when in fact she is of course so much more than this-independent, clever, free thinking etc. I’ve been treating her like a naughty teenager when she flouts ‘the rules’. It’s made me rethink my stance on all of this.

Absolutely agree.

I was having this conversation the other day. If I was in my late 70s, had copd and was told I had to stay home alone for 18 months - I wouldn't do it.

I would rather take my chances and spend the last year of my life surrounded by loved ones, then potentially spend the last year of my life alone. Spending 18 months alone could also effect your mental wellbeing so badly you die anyway.

It should be left up to the individual what to do. The gov should no way be able to tell people when they can see their family or when they can leave their home. This whole thing has and is massively over stepping the boundaries on what a gov should be able to control.

My dad's in his mid 70s. He has a heart condition common at that age (atrial fibrillation) but he goes out for a run /job every morning.

He lives in council sheltered housing and tells me the residents have a bit of grass at the front where they take a chair and sit a bit away from each other recently in the sun.

The elderly are always vulnerable to disease especially new a disease like this one. But obviously in the long run clinging to life at any cost means you just exist. Not many people to exist for its own sake - we want to, no need to live. There are no easy answers but letting people make their own choices in as many circumstances as possible is the most important achievement of the west.

I feel so sorry for the older generation at the moment. A lot of people seem to have the attitude of “yeah, you’ve had your life - if you have to be sacrificed now so we can have our freedom so be it”. Never mind that these people have been contributing to society and paying tax for so many years. I wish everyone would stop and think about how they’d be feeling right now if they were elderly? Cos you know what folks? Time flies and one day soon that’ll be us - and chances are there will be an even worse pandemic around the corner.

I also REALLY hate this “boomer” label - it’s so disrespectful. It almost seems to de-humanise and separate the older generation.

I totally get it from the older person’s point of view.
But all of this isn’t just about us as individuals, it’s about us keeping our if hospital so we don’t overwhelm the NHS.
It’s a bloody nightmare, we all have to behave in a way that means the rest of our friends and neighbours survive too .

My mum has a terminal lung condition and knows her time is limited anyway. I've been trying to keep dd (9) away from her as much as possible and said she can't hug and kiss nanny.
My mum said to me, I know I'm dying, please let me enjoy the time I have with my granddaughter.

How can I argue with that?

Jog! He misses his lunch club for the housing residents though I know, even the local walking group has been stopped though

"Basically, there's no point being alive if there's no life for you to live?"

Yes, I've been saying this from day one. The vaccines being created have a very low protection rate, it at all for the over 65's.

It becomes a matter of quality over quantity. That generation has lived with lots of diseases and accidents, even birth complications that could have killed them. This isn't their first experience of life being risky.

We have to learn to live with this virus and accept death, more easily. We are going back to when I was growing up and people didn't necessarily (hardly ever) live through cancer, heart disease, diabetes, epilepsy etc and many didn't live past retirement age. Which was why the WC didn't worry too much about pensions. The men didn't draw theirs for long, even when retirement was 60.

They aren't taking up ventilators, or ICU, they don't meet the criteria. The level of care that they will get at the end of their life would have happened eventually anyway. I do think though that everyone should now think about under what circumstances tjey would consider DNR and end of life care.

Yes, it is a lot about our feelings really isn't it

How would we feel if we passed it on to them? Or the children! That would be terrible

I guess we need to think about their feelings more as well

I think my mum is bored with life and is quite realistic about the fact that she will die in the next 10 years. She did once say youve got to die from something.

Its frustrating because she doesnt seem to care about the effect on us and gc should she get ill and or die. None of us would get to say goodbye, nor attend a funeral. Nor does she seem to appreciate that its not just her we are worried about. Its the 3 other people she will probably infect along the way.

I suppose the whole approach is quite infantalising.

Lovelydaybut, the elderly aren't overwhelming our hospitals, they pass away quickly and we have opened up sites for end of life care.

We are all going to die, we should be discussing end of life care. I've seen some ridiculous fb posts ranting against doctors wanting to give patients 75+ a relaxant so they don't die gasping for breath, by family members. Everyone deserves a good death.

Hear hear!

"None of us would get to say goodbye, nor attend a funeral."

They are opening up funerals again. Do i get to dictate what sports or activities on holiday that my adult children do? Can i put a limit on their drinking when away? Can we now block emigration?

The problem with this is I can see all sides to the argument and all are valid. Yes, as detailed in the article regarding the elderly. But equally, many people are sacrificing one hell of a lot to keep them safe, facing financial ruin. Nurses are dying from trying to keep them safe.

The language used initially of shielding the vulnerable, I always thought was confusing, when what is really meant is shielding the general population by removing the biggest risk for resources. It as always been about keeping the elderly and seriously ill out of hospitals, and they are generally the easiest to isolate as many have less input into economic and running of the country. So yes I totally agree with what Janice is saying but choosing your own risk is difficult when it impacts the risks of others.

I agree op. I said to my dad the othercday that if i was his age id rather take my chances ...
The only thing is though is that it may put health workers at risk. I think its fine to hug grandchildren though..i rekon everyone regardless of age needs to manage their expectations...not just for the coronavirus but for the planet.
Less long haul flughts, work from home etc = less pollution.

I don't believe these policies are all that caring about protecting the over 70s it's more about protecting the nhs and also how the nation/govt appear to the outside world.

Loneliness is bad for people's health, isolation is bad for mental health and dementia