To be annoyed at IVF comments

[Strawberryshortcake28]

My IVF was cancelled due to CV which although was devestating I completely agree and understand money and resources need to be better spent elsewhere

What I am annoyed about is the comments I have been hearing about how it shouldn't be available in the first place on the NHS and it is a waste of money

Infertility is a disease! Caused by all different health issues imagine not being able to have your own DC
Imagine trying every month and getting your hopes up for years and years to be disappointed month on month

Imagine watching all your friends have their dc and think you'll never get the chance and feeling like you have nothing in common anymore
Imagine waking up every Xmas or mother's day with no DC to spend it with

Infertility has been the hardest experience of my life and made me severely depressed IVF gives me hope .

Yes you can go private and pay for it yourself but not everyone is in the financial position a lot of couples spend thousands on treatment with no DC at the end the NHS could be their last hope give them one more shot
Yes adoption may be an option but not everyone can be approved or is it an easy process

Aibu to be angry ?

@grumpyhoonmain

Not necessarily. Just found this on the Tommy's website:

One study found that for couples having regular unprotected sex:

around 7 out of 10 women aged 30 will conceive within one year; around 6 out of 10 women aged 35 will conceive within one year; around 4 out of 10 women aged 40 will conceive within one year.

There are several causes for fertility problems, but sometimes an exact cause can’t be found. This is called ‘unexplained infertility’. Unexplained infertility is rare when the woman is in her 20s but becomes the most common cause of infertility in women over 35 years of age.

I thought it was an accepted fact fertility declines with age regardless of medical problems, due to a loss in egg quality and the woman approaching perimenopause? So most women wont be as fertile at 38 as they were at 20. Of course there are always exceptions.

That is misleading as it covers pregnancy at one year (women over 35 are encouraged to seek advice if they ttc longer than this) and the data comes from infertility clinics which make skew it due to women having health issues. 80% of women in all age groups will conceive within 2 years naturally if they don’t have a health issue.

Unexplained is basically jargon for ‘issue we haven’t identified yet’. IVF clinics charge for further testing (and the NHS doesn’t offer it) so women with named health issues might be unexplained in one cycle and then once they have been tested have a named condition in the next.

@GrumpyHoonMain

So a healthy 39 year old is as fertile as a healthy 20 year old?

@lozster my IVF pregnancy was consultant led and I had to have additional scans simply because it was IVF and therefore higher risk, no other reason. This may not be the case in every area but it certainly is where I live

@Wolfgirrl - yes in a nutshell. The reason why healthy and fertile first time mothers (who are older) have fewer kids is not down to fertility problems but other social factors. They tend to have less time to space pregnancies for example, more likely to breastfeed past 6 months (which can impact ovulation), more likely to be wealthier with jobs that encourage them to be one / two and done, etc.

IVF should be available on the NHS, but I believe it should be means-tested. That way people with less money could have more goes.

@GrumpyHoonMain

So eggs dont decline in quality with age in your view?

@updownleftrightstart Criteria for automatic consultant led care must vary by hospital/area. So many things seem to. In my area, ivf pregnancy is not a reason to go down the consultant led path.

Some of these comments are so horrible and have absolutely no idea whatsoever about IVF because if you had to face the hell of IVF then you would not even question IVF on NHS.

@Wolfgirrl I think you make a fair point - couples start ttc later in life. This means that they have less time to sort out problems if they occur (and this can take years) and the quality of eggs available is worse than in the teenage years. This doesn’t change my view on treatment. It’s a lazy assumption that these couples delayed because they fancied a holiday in the Maldives and a four bedroom house. Couples delay ttc for a host of legitimate and sensible reasons. I call it being responsible. My view is that it is unfair to ‘reward’ (ie provide treatments without question) irresponsible behaviours (risky sex, over eating, under exercising, drug taking, drinking to excess) and then ‘penalise’ responsible adults.

I think infertility deserves more funding compared to gastric band surgery when people are getting surgery for being overweight, when they can control what they eat, however people cannot control whether they are infertile or not 🙄 also if you've smoked 40 a day for 30years and get lung cancer, how much will you be costing the NHS for them to operate, chemo, radiotherapy, overnight stays etc. Same with alcoholics who end up with kidney failure. I mean these people in my opinion have done this to their body. Being infertile is NOT A CHOICE! And everyone commenting on healthcare in the US please do not get me started on that shit show. OP I'm not having IVF but if I had to pay more taxes to allow this to be on the NHS I would 100%!!!!
If we all paid £1 everytime we went to the GP, hosp etc the NHS would be in a much better position than it is in currently regarding finances and funding. So let's stop bashing people for wanting children. Because quite often they have spent their own money finding out through nutritionists, private blood tests, ovulation kits and then and only then has IVF become their last resort. It is a ridiculously high amount to pay and not everyone can afford it, so because you aren't financially well off you shouldnt have the opportunity to be parents? Right...

@ClareVH I’m unsure why you think means testing ivf is fair? No other treatment is means tested and nor should it be. As I said upthread, the nhs is not a charity that we have to go to cap in hand. We all pay for it. There are alternatives. Millionaires are as entitled to use it as anyone else; their tax and ni will have paid for it more than most. Exclude them and they will quickly wish to divert their tax and NI elsewhere and why wouldn’t they?

IVF should be available on the NHS, but I believe it should be means-tested. That way people with less money could have more goes

Because the poorer are more deserving of becoming parents?

Do you pay this to every conditions? If two people have a stroke, you treat the one with a lower income then? So in essence, make the nhs available only to the poorer?

You do realise that if that was the case, more medical.professionals, including most likely the best will go and work for private hospitals?

Also some people don't meet their OH until after 30, they try and do the right thing of getting to know them for a couple of years, buy a house and then maybe marry - that could legitimately be 4years so because of someone meeting at 30 and trying for children at 34 they are delaying ttc? No of course not! We have it drilled in to us from sex Ed at school that by just holding hands you can get pregnant and unfortunately that is NOT the case. It is only when you start ttc you come across how it isn't as easy as you thought.

I personally believe the NHS should only be providing treatment that is clinically required (including screening for various things).

But you can still have tact, I don’t agree with the NHS providing fertility treatment, but I wouldn’t say that to someone who was having fertility treatment on the NHS.

Once again MN'ers it seems like we are all blaming women as to why they shouldn't have IVF, specifically that they have left it too late!
How about when the men have fertility issues, should IVF not be considered for the couple then? I mean we all know men can procreate until they die - Bernie Eccleston is 89 having his 4th now.

Sorry about the response you’re getting OP, these threads always go this way. Come to the infertility board if you need support

Anyone with their own naturally conceived children who voted YABU is hugely selfish. It’s a horrible world view that only those with functioning reproductive systems or the very wealthy (as the majority of people could never afford multiple rounds of private IVF) are entitled to have children.

Thankfully NICE disagrees and recommends 3 rounds, though sadly this is not provided everywhere in the U.K.

As someone with a reproductive disease which causes crippling agony every month, whose condition deteriorates over time but cannot be properly treated until I either conceive or give up, the lack of ivf on the nhs and waiting until I could save up to go private would be both mentally and physically debilitating for me even more so than things already are after 3.5 years TTC.

I work and pay taxes and always have, I am content for those to be paid towards treating smokers who have lung cancer, obese people who have weight related health problems, drug users who need methadone, heavily processed meat eaters who have bowel cancer and many other things, despite the fact that I don’t smoke, I’m not obese, I don’t eat meat, I’m not a drug user. I can see the merit in healing even those who have harmed themselves through their lifestyle choices as everyone’s life and story is different, but I’m sad others can’t see the merit in healing me and others in my position.

@SimonJT do you have children?

Yes, I have a little boy, he’s adopted.

80% of women in all age groups will conceive within 2 years naturally if they don’t have a health issue.

I met DH at 28. Was married and ttc by 29. And DH and I have never used contraception in our 30 year marriage. So I’m certainly not one of that 80%.

All this talk of age related infertility feels like victim blaming.

This thread has shown there are some bloody heartless people out there

Exactly . Why on earth would OP need to see this when she feels shit already ?
Pain upon pain

What’s the value for her ? Nothing

yes in a nutshell. The reason why healthy and fertile first time mothers (who are older) have fewer kids is not down to fertility problems but other social factors. They tend to have less time to space pregnancies for example, more likely to breastfeed past 6 months (which can impact ovulation), more likely to be wealthier with jobs that encourage them to be one / two and done, etc

That's funny. The only three people, including myself, to havz breastfed beyond 6 months are those having their baby before 23. I was the youngest and still breastfeed my 2.5 year old

@Couchbettato great response and I agree with you. But I’m always kind of shocked that people need to be in a situation before they can understand it enough to at least have some empathy. It only takes opening our minds a little.

@SimonJT May I ask, was this down to infertility your decision to adopt? Or because of not wanting to increase population/give an unplanned child a loving home?