Labour is right to demand an exit strategy

[Goldenheart18]

This lockdown has removed (I hope temporarily) our basic human rights. I get that it was done to ensure that the NHS could cope with the surge of coronavirus cases. But after 4 weeks the government has confirmed that the NHS is coping, and that it does have capacity for more cases. Yet they won’t even slightly ease the lockdown restrictions, or even give any indication as to how long they will last, or which ones might be eased up first. More importantly they won’t explain what their plan is for getting us back to some kind of normality.

Surely by this point , after 4 weeks, the government should have had a workable plan for exiting the lockdown, given that the longer it goes on the greater the damage to the economy. They keep saying that the science will inform when they lift the restrictions. But that makes no sense. Even if they get new cases down to zero as soon as we exit they will go right back up again. Surely the rate of infection is only part of the issue. The main one is how do we keep the rate of infection low once we leave lockdown (which has to be to be temporary if we do not want an economic depression).

It seems likely that any workable exit plan depends on testing and contact tracing. But where is the government on achieving any of that in the next 3 - 4 weeks? If they don’t publish their exit plan they cannot be held to account for whether or not they are putting in place the right measures to achieve it. And that’s why they absolutely should be open with the public now about what their plans are.

We have just gone through years and years of austerity as a country where poverty and homelessness has surged. We cannot afford another Great Depression.

Aibu?

My belief is that because they know they reacted too slowly and don't want a resurgence, they are erring on caution. I think they'll look over the next few weeks with experts assessing how other countries fare before releasing a staggered or phased plan.

I dislike all this politic bollocks. There's been a lot of people, regular joes and politicians, using this situation as their sounding board and to point score.

Yes is not the time for left right political points. Although of course opposition must do its job to challenge, we should all be working together.

I think some members of the public have shown themselves to be remarkably dim and unable to interpret the RULES with common sense. Therefore I think the government are right to wait until they can are confident the strategy is correct AND have very clear messaging to deliver to the public.

The questioning, challenging is wholly appropriate. The way in which it is expressed has been awful, in some cases.

The negativity, accusations and downright hostile manner is utterly out of place, counterproductive. It only served to fuel the proliferation of fake news and fosters fear, suspicion and careless opposition.

What use is there for the shadow minister who, when asked what he thought should be done now, started talking about what should have been done a month or more ago? Worse when challenged and asked to focus on the needs of today simply returned to his pre planned blame game. What use is he? What good does he do anyone?

The only thing he adds to is the already increasing fear, culture of blame and hostility. He adds fuck all to the quality of life. He seeks only to self aggrandize. Fortunately many voters will remember his useless chest beating, and that of many like him in all parties.

I'm not saying white wash anything, I am saying stay as positive as possible, even when criticising. Fear is the mind killer, as one author had it. She was right. We don't need to feed our fears, nor do we need an array of journalists and political wannabes feeding them for us. We need them to do their job better than ever before... and that means challenging what is, right now and analysing what was when all of this is over.

It would be stupid to commit to something now - we have to see what happens and keep footloose in our response Well that's good because no one has suggested committing to anything. What has been suggested that as adults we have a right to be included in the discussion.

There can’t be an exit strategy yet because it’s simply too soon. 700+ people are still dying a day and you’re whinging about not being able to shop in clothes stores or go to McDonald’s. Until the curve starts to flatten, we all need to stay at home. Simple.

To be honest
Now would be a time for a government of national unity
The point scoring needs to stop
Questioning and challenging is good
The government should show some humility and say this is too big we have made mistakes but going forwards we need to all work together
Political truce called for three months
All pull together to make a critically assessed plan for the short, medium and longer term
People have lost trust and that is dangerous in a situation like this. Compliance with what people are asked to do will eventually wear thin
Look at Germany and how they have kept people informed and New Zealand
But I know I'm wishing for the moon on a stick with this

as adults we have a right to be included in the discussion.

The problem is this whole crisis has shown, very clearly, that a great many adults are not able to listen and interpret what they've heard in a sensible way. For example, one minister expresses publicly that, in his view, schools should be reopening by a certain date. Next thing you know i've got parents on the phone/emailing clearly under the misapprehension that this is what's happening, that it counts as an official announcement when it's just one bloke trying to initiate a "discussion". The Government are clearly worried that if they start publicly discussing the exit strategy now idiots will take that as a licence to invite all and sundry round for a house party or travel to visit relatives because "they're already talking about relaxing restrictions so it can't be as bad as all that, can it?"

tootiredtoconga have the parents got the kids in uniform ready to go? No they haven't have they so not the same as a licence to invite all and sundry round for a party at all. Weren't the parents asking for clarification and is that a bad thing, surely keeping in touch is positive. Maybe you could send an email letting them know that nothing has been passed on to schools yet but as soon as you know anything you will pass it on to them, you know treating them like adults who can be involved in the discussion.

hobnobs great post and so so true.

Look at Germany and how they have kept people informed and New Zealand

It's easy to keep people informed if the news is good.
Do we know when those in Germany and NZ who are at risk, eg health problems and lowered immunity are being allowed to go out?
I doubt that news is quite so positive.

I wonder if the ones desperate for a plan actually are at high risk?

I suspect they aren't.

I think those at high risk are amongst the ones who want to know that there actually is a plan and that everything won't just be flung open leaving them stranded so to speak
They have the most to lose and gain depending how this is done

I can't see anyone telling those at high risk that they are safe to go out and about. I mean I personally would never take that risk, risk another person's life, so why should we think our Gov will.

My husband is high risk and yes he would like to see what they are planning, not expecting full details or definite dates. When it happens he will decide what he is comfortable with doing, he has been in lock down for 5 weeks as he made that decision himself.

I had a look to see if I could see what was happening to the elderly/vulnerable in New Zealand but can't find much. What I did find was that there seems to be a big expectation that grandparents will be doing alot of childcare and advice for elderly people on how to cope with that. So here GPs are being told not to look after their grandchildren which sounds like they are less strict than the UK.

The question around lockdown is interesting because they are saying that even if you've had coronavirus once, you can catch it again. So what use is lifting lockdown? Are they essentially saying stay in lockdown until a vaccine?
I don't know what the solution is, but it is not only the state of the economy that will suffer. Mental health is going to be impacted big time. The great depression on all levels.

I agree it shouldn't be about political point scoring. Labour were irresponsible to pressure for an exit strategy. As is the media. They should've pressured for more testing and PPE two months ago. Labour failed us as much as the conservatives have.

Pressure for an exit plan risks lives. Millions of vulnerable people living with conditions that have the highest mortality rates aren't on the shielding list. They're the most vulnerable really if lockdown ends prematurely. Any exit strategy should at this stage remain behind closed doors until there's a better idea of what to do. Took much pressure and expectation risks bad (life threatening) decisions being made. We have hope of progress with a vaccine and/or treatments by September. Of course no definites at this stage and it would be prioritised for healthcare staff and others on the frontline, then the most vulnerable, before the general public - but it's something positive to hope for and It's something to bear in mind when planning the next stage.

Labour were irresponsible to pressure for an exit strategy. As is the media What about people like IDS, is he irresponsible or is it OK if Conservatives do it.

No, it's not ok for any of them to do it.

I wonder if the ones desperate for a plan actually are at high risk?

I suspect they aren't

So, only the vulnerable are allowed to have an opinion about whether or not we should know about how the government are planning to allow us our civil liberties back? The rest of us should put up and shut up for god knows how long?

Your civil liberties??

Please, feel free to exercise them all.

But remember that with rights you have responsibilities, so as you do as you please be sure not to put anyone else at risk without their consent.

FFS!

Oh give over. I have not once flouted the rules, nor do I plan to. But that doesn’t take away my right to want at least a vague indication as to what the plan may look like. We can’t just keep trying to shut down debate with the use of emotive language. Both sides of the argument can report to emotion sound bytes... but then the debate doesn’t exist any longer.
Do you know what, it is actually OK for me to feel pissed off about being in lockdown...

Civil liberty. The right to life is the most basic human right. Unfortunately we're up against a virus, not a human. We can't really ask it to tell us it's plans. At this stage all we can do (if we respect human life) is act with caution and wait until we know more.

I get that Toffee, but the underlying message form many posters here is that the media, the opposition.. nor us should even question the government’s plan. That it is outrageous that we would even suggest such a thing. I don’t think that is fair. I get that we can’t come out of lockdown yet.... in fact, I don’t want to come out of lockdown yet as it would be a huge mistake. But that doesn’t mean that we cannot even ask the questions!