Labour is right to demand an exit strategy

[Goldenheart18]

This lockdown has removed (I hope temporarily) our basic human rights. I get that it was done to ensure that the NHS could cope with the surge of coronavirus cases. But after 4 weeks the government has confirmed that the NHS is coping, and that it does have capacity for more cases. Yet they won’t even slightly ease the lockdown restrictions, or even give any indication as to how long they will last, or which ones might be eased up first. More importantly they won’t explain what their plan is for getting us back to some kind of normality.

Surely by this point , after 4 weeks, the government should have had a workable plan for exiting the lockdown, given that the longer it goes on the greater the damage to the economy. They keep saying that the science will inform when they lift the restrictions. But that makes no sense. Even if they get new cases down to zero as soon as we exit they will go right back up again. Surely the rate of infection is only part of the issue. The main one is how do we keep the rate of infection low once we leave lockdown (which has to be to be temporary if we do not want an economic depression).

It seems likely that any workable exit plan depends on testing and contact tracing. But where is the government on achieving any of that in the next 3 - 4 weeks? If they don’t publish their exit plan they cannot be held to account for whether or not they are putting in place the right measures to achieve it. And that’s why they absolutely should be open with the public now about what their plans are.

We have just gone through years and years of austerity as a country where poverty and homelessness has surged. We cannot afford another Great Depression.

Aibu?

True.

Lockdown? I’d hardly call it that as we’re still able to go out several times a day if the mood takes us. OP are you actually aware of how many people have lost lives here? Even our PM’s gone into hiding yet again because he doesn’t want to take the blame, it’s not like we didn’t already know he was a fool. Whatever happens we’re fucked. Exit plan indeed!

Truth is that here will be a number of strategies, variations on variations. BUT none of them can be chosen until there is more data on what is happening with the spread of the virus. No one is asking them to choose, we are asking them to include us in the discussion.

It just feels like it’s the only line Starmer’s got right now, much like Ed Miliband’s endless and pointless ‘demands’ for public enquiries on every possible subject when he was leader. Yes, one will be needed, but the idea of having one ready to be published in an unprecedented situation which an unprepared government is still getting to grips with (or not, depending on your POV) seems a bit previous.

1forsorrow I'd almost settle for knowing they are discussing the exit strategy. Rather than the pat on the head and 'it's too early' It would be encouraging. I fear they are the ones who can't hold two ideas in their heads at the same time and think we are the same.

he lockdown was never intended to save lives. It was to ensure the NHS could cope.

Surely you understand the stupidity of this statement. If the NHS can't cope people die unnecessarily. In other countries where the healthcare system became overwhelmed there were as many or more excess deaths from people not suffering covid than those who were. If you can't be treated for a heart attack or burst appendix quickly enough you die when you might otherwise have been saved. If there are no ICU beds available you can't have your cancer surgery and you might die.

We need an exit strategy - and we need to ensure that we have the capacity is available in the NHS, in lab testing, in vaccine development to ensure that we can cope.

I think the people can be trusted if they know that there is a plan.
Timelines are irrelevant. But a plan needs to be explained.

I think the people can be trusted if they know that there is a plan.
Timelines are irrelevant

Bollocks.

People generally can’t be trusted - it’s been proved over and over by the number of people not social distancing. Even on MN the number of ridiculous ‘am I allowed to...’ threads when the answer is blatantly obvious to anyone with the smallest degree of common sense has been shocking.

IF the plan was 6 months lockdown and that was announced now - do you think that would go down well? Or would it create massive panic, a surge in panic buying and house sales falling through and businesses closing and crime surges and plenty going ‘fuck this, it’s too long, I’m going out’.

The plans are being fed to us in bite size chunks because that’s all plenty of people can reasonably be ‘trusted’ with.

Surely you understand the stupidity of this statement. If the NHS can't cope people die unnecessarily. In other countries where the healthcare system became overwhelmed there were as many or more excess deaths from people not suffering covid than those who were. If you can't be treated for a heart attack or burst appendix quickly enough you die when you might otherwise have been saved. If there are no ICU beds available you can't have your cancer surgery and you might die.

You're confusing the lives saved by way of having a functional national health service (currently in question because of the confusing message of the lockdown) with lives saved by restricting people's movements so as to prevent (inevitable) covid19 deaths.

The former is the goal of the lockdown; the latter is not. They're related but different.

@Smilethoyourheartisbreaking is correct.

The constant message on the TV updates is that people are complying.
Social media and MN are not representative of the real world.

I'll bow out! I don't agree with all the monster shouting, the attempts at blaming, etc. I don't think the government have no plan they just dont have a plan and won't for a while yet!

I know what D Notices are, if what we are getting is propaganda then journalism really is sunk!

I do believe in a healthy dose of scepticism and doing some independent reading of the ONS data etc.

I do believe that people who look for conspiracies will find them, including those that hold that the government as a whole is utterly incapable, scientific advisors included!

I do believe that the only way we wil know who, if anyone, had the best or worst ideas is long, long after all of this is over! And that monster shouting right now is a futile exercise of self scaring.

But I know it helps many people process the information available. So, regardless of who reads me as patronising or wrong, I'll keep on reading and posting, without all the name calling, etc!

You're confusing the lives saved by way of having a functional national health service (currently in question because of the confusing message of the lockdown) with lives saved by restricting people's movements so as to prevent (inevitable) covid19 deaths.

Well exactly! So the point of the lockdown is to save lives. Don't forget that if we run out of Oxygen more people will die of COVID too. I think perhaps what you meant to say is that we're not trying to reduce the overall proportion of people who eventually get infected with COVID (which I agree with) but we are absolutely trying to save lives.

People generally can’t be trusted - it’s been proved over and over by the number of people not social distancing

But most people are complying with the rules.

The lockdown was a delay not a solution. And I have a nasty feeling we'll be looking back to the days of austerity as a golden age before too long.

As always in this household we're hoping for the best but preparing for the worst. Work out what your minimum food options would be. See if there's anything you can grow, catch or forage legally near you. Learn how to recognise things that are likely to kill you or make you very ill and what is safe. Have a look at wartime and other cookbooks. If you can, obtain basic camping and survival kit. I don't mean weapons but things that would help you survive if the water or power got hit, however unlikely that might seem right now. Investigate your local support groups and volunteer if you can. Learn how to make do and mend and what home remedies do actually work and when you need to call the doctor. Learn what websites and information sources you can genuinely trust. And triple check everything the UK government and their supporting departments are saying. And then check it again. Twice. And learn how to read body language for lies, tells and signs of impending conflict. Read or study history. For all our technology and surface sophistication, we're still just animals trying to survive. Human nature does not change, just the backdrop, costumes and technology.

And if none of it's needed, great, you can sell the kit or use it to go camping when the next phase of human history starts. And you'll have useful skills and knowledge to support our indolentr, disconnected, materialistic 20th century lifestyles. In the meantime we're also watching the USA with grim fascination. As its starting to look a lot like the 1770s/1860s....

we are asking them to include us in the discussion. Why? What use are we to policy makers, scientists etc? How will that discussion take place? How will we give them our input? How much delay in any policiy making would be acceptable to give us our voice? Do we have a series of referenda? What?

That seems to me to be such a weird attitude. Or maybe I have misunderstood and what might be acceptable is published minutes of government meetings, details on purchasing etc.

????

Jesus wept! So according to the 65% of those who voted (at the time I voted) we shouldn't plan ahead?!
NHS is short of PPE while the health services in the majority of EU countries aren't. Our government also didn't plan for the epidemic in February when it was already in Europe. Now we shouldn't plan for relaxing the lockdown?! Planning is not the same as relaxing the lockdown.
Or maybe I'm wrong, we shouldn't plan not to confuse the public as it seems that most people are actually too stupid to make the distinction between planning for and actually doing it.

Not long ago the media were holding up South Korea and Singapore as good examples of how to tackle the virus. Testing, testing, testing after coming out of lockdown.

And now Singapore’s death rate is back to doubling daily and South Korea have a second wave even worse than the first.

In truth it’s going to be years before anyone can say with any amount of certainty which countries got it right and which didn’t.

And this morning the WHO have spoken out against antibody testing as it’s not a guarantee of immunity. So we’re back to square1 even though people have been crying out for these tests.

Things aren’t going to get back to normal for a long time if ever. In fact there is far more likely to be a new normal.

But social distancing measures in certain instances will be in place for a long time. The vulnerable may need to stay isolated for a long time, possibly even until there is a vaccine. (And I speak as one of them).

Publishing any kind of exit strategy is completely pointless and will just be fodder for the media when it has to inevitably change. I can just see Laura Kuenssberg getting up at the media briefing and saying “but last week you said that the strategy would be x, now you’re saying it’s y. Don’t you think you owe the country an apology for that?”

Why? What use are we to policy makers, scientists etc? How will that discussion take place? How will we give them our input? How much delay in any policiy making would be acceptable to give us our voice? Do we have a series of referenda? What? Because we aren't children, this is having a serious effect on our lives and we should be part of the discussion, we are supposed to be a democracy unless your MP is a minister you aren't actually being represented. This govt has made some serious mistakes, one or more of them saying what sort of things are being discussed would give us the opportunity to contact them or the media and say, "No." that won't work, we don't want that or whatever.

I'm not so worried about an exit plan just yet. There is a chance to learn from other countries on this and hopefully the government have realised that this time round. They will be damned either way, too soon then risk reinfection and more deaths, too late and risk the economy further.
Going forward l think that there is a balance to be struck from a social cohesion point of view.
Many posters have commented how they have seen little change in their circumstances other than the fact that they now wfh. On the other hand otherwise successful business owners and the self employed watch businesses slip away taking with them savings, homes, pensions, the jobs they provide and the tax these jobs pay.

Publishing any kind of exit strategy is completely pointless and will just be fodder for the media when it has to inevitably change. I can just see Laura Kuenssberg getting up at the media briefing and saying “but last week you said that the strategy would be x, now you’re saying it’s y. Don’t you think you owe the country an apology for that?” No one that I can see is saying they should be releasing a fixed plan, what we are asking for is an open discussion about it, information that we should have. We are still a democracy, just.

People need to be able to plan for possible futures. We can do that if we know what the options or possibilities are.