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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Multiple children

423 replies

UnaCorda · 17/04/2020 21:03

I'll probably be accused of being goady for asking this, but I would genuinely like to hear people's thoughts and explanations.

What causes people to decide to have a large family? I mean, assuming it was planned, what did you expect to get out of having four, five or six children - or more - that you didn't get from the first one, two or three? Did it turn out how you imagined?

Obviously this will vary between couples, but do people dispassionately consider the impact on their finances, the available space in their home, demands on their time, the effect on existing children, the toll it takes on your body, and the ramifications for the planet?

Or is it simply a question of procreation being an instinctual drive which, for a lot of people, is too strong to ignore and overrides all practicalities?

Also, if you would have liked to have had a large family but decided against it, what influenced your decision?

Thanks for your thoughts.

OP posts:
bloodywhitecat · 18/04/2020 13:23

I wanted a larger family than the one I had (I have two, I wanted 4) so now mine are grown and have left home I foster. I was a fostered child myself and the experience back in the 60s wasn't great, I wanted to foster to do it well and I think I do. It also means my arms and home are never empty.

MondeoFan · 18/04/2020 13:26

I would have loved to have had a big family, 5 or 6 children. I have 2 because that's all I can comfortably afford.
I was from a family of 2 children.
Think big families can have pros and cons like all families.
I think once you get past 3 children you don't really notice any more coming along.

IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 18/04/2020 13:29

I think once you get past 3 children you don't really notice any more coming along

From my experience, the other children do very much notice.

TwistyHair · 18/04/2020 13:31

@Namechanger0800 because sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeep. I couldn’t got back to waking up so much at night. It was awful. And having to go through high risk pregnancies and NICU again. Nearly did me in

StillCounting123 · 18/04/2020 13:34

Ulver as an NI native I find your comment rude. Referring to it as a conflict zone is rude, and I would be interested in hearing more about the NI groups who encouraged large family numbers due to political reasons.

If you mean the Catholic families, then you are way off base, and rarely did they follow the Pope's teaching about abstaining from contraception. Protestant families also were generally around 3 kid average from what I remember.

Wfhwith3yearold · 18/04/2020 13:34

Can I just add that as the eldest female in a family of 4 kids (2f and, 2m), it sucked.

I love my siblings but as a teenager I had to share a room with a 3 year old. I took time off school to help when my mum was sick. I cooked, cleaned around doing my homework. I had to move in with a friend during exam time because I couldn't get any peace to study.

If you want a big family, make sure you don't put too much responsibility on the older ones. It's not fair and it's selfish.

Hoggleludo · 18/04/2020 13:48

Friend of mine has 12 children

It comes from her childhood being awful.

However. They both have successful businesses. Neither get any form of benefit at all. Her business means she works from home all the time

I love their house. It's my favourite place in the world. It's chaotic. But it's fulll of love and laughter!

cherrybunx0 · 18/04/2020 13:50

this has been a really interesting read actually - not sure why you were questioned at the beginning as to why youd want to know this or given biscuits. these were the sort of discussions we used to go onto in sociology when talking about nuclear families and set ups etc. I think its fascinating.

from a personal point of view I am one of four - one sibling similar age and then much younger (primary age) younger two. having the younger two hasnt really affected me negatively as I had moved out by time they came along and finished school and we have a great relationship.

however, if you were to ask sibling of similar age to me this question they would have a different opinion. always compared our childhood and theirs, felt hard done by that their dad is around and doesnt like the fact our mother is preoccupied with two younger ones rather than doing things like nights out/football/evening meals with them. so I think it's been great having the extra siblings, the other older one but so much.

from my mums point of view, she had the extra 2 because my step dad wanted his own biological children. I guess its worked well for them in the sense that me and oldest sibling can now look after ourselves and dont need as much parenting - although life style clashes a bit when the eldest one goes back drunk on a saturday night lol!

cherrybunx0 · 18/04/2020 13:51

*not so much

Ulver · 18/04/2020 13:57

Ulver “as an NI native I find your comment rude. Referring to it as a conflict zone is rude,”

It was and is a conflict zone.
Just stating a fact.
I’m Irish and have family that live there, if you find it rude to discuss the facts then I’m amazed you are from NI.

Ulver · 18/04/2020 14:02

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/dup-mp-hits-back-at-mcdonald-over-scorched-earth-comment-38014213.html

"There's changes afoot on the island of Ireland in terms of demographics which is not always my first port of call - I don't like this idea of outbreeding your opposition to get constitutional change - but the demographic trends are clear," the Dublin TD said.

It’s a well known phrase used when discussing NI politics.

corythatwas · 18/04/2020 14:26

Only have 2 kids myself, but did grow up in a family of 4 children and I loved it. Never felt my parents didn't have time for me. Often shocked and saddened when I read on MN that of course it was normal in the 60s, 70s and 80s for parents not to want to spend time with their children. Not in our family it wasn't. We had great games and great adventures and I never felt I couldn't have 1-1 time. Two parents, both equally engaged with the family and equally hands-on. Nothing they enjoyed more than talking to us or teaching us or just spending time with us. (When I say adventures, I mean little ones: sheltering under a coat in the rain, eating our sandwiches in a bus shelter, making a den).

We didn't have a telly, but plenty of things to do: diy, cooking or baking together, listening to stories.

I did wear my brother's hand-me-downs but very much preferred that to my mother's idea of nice girls' clothes. Indeed my own 2 also wore hand-me-downs and second-hand clothes: I think it's a dreadful idea to throw away functional clothes just because they're not brand new. I am wearing my late mother-in-law's clothes now.

Also didn't have a car so that was one problem solved.

They partitioned rooms off and slept on a sofa-bed in the living room so we could each have our own space.

Don't think our teen years were particularly stressful: the most stressful part as I remember it was my mother going through the menopause, which was actually a bit worrying; the rest of us had fewer issues. As for worrying about exams, that is partly to do with where I grew up, but there simply wasn't the competitiveness: parents were quite happy to accept that some of us might go to uni and some of us might not. In the end, it was an even split. Two of us did PhDs, one started out in a low-skill job and worked his way up, one set up his own business, very much on a shoestring. We've all done ok in life, just different paths.

Thinking it over, I wonder if the biggest part of the success wasn't that we had a dad who was full of energy and just as hands-on as our mum. People on here often speak as if children were mainly a thing for the mother, as if they are the ones who have to juggle and be torn while dads can just carry on doing their thing. I never experienced that in my own 60s childhood. My dad would pedal home as fast as he could at the end of the working day to cook family supper while mum mended our clothes or sorted the laundry; at weekends, he would be whizzing the hoover round and mopping the floors while she dealt with dusting and tidying. He taught us to use tools and ski (in the garden, not Alpine resorts) and map-read, mum taught us to cook and sew and knit (no distinction between girls and boys). When we went on (fairly basic) holidays, he would happily carry a child on his back for hours on end. I don't think I ever saw him sit down and rest while mum was still working, though the opposite sometimes happened when she was unwell. And yet I never remember him seeming grumpy or resentful. I don't think it ever occurred to him that there could be anything more fun than doing things for his family, or than sharing fun things with his family.

As for the carbon footprint, that was at least partly offset by our youngest sibling being adopted.

Do I think it is worth keeping families smaller now for environmental reasons? Yes, I do.

Do I think it is impossible to provide 4 children with a happy, fulfilling childhood? Clearly not. But I do think you have to enjoy family life more than almost anything else to make a go of it.

nestisflown · 18/04/2020 14:34

@corythatwas what a lovely childhood you had- I really hope my children can look back at their childhood and feel the same way.

Do I think it is impossible to provide 4 children with a happy, fulfilling childhood? Clearly not. But I do think you have to enjoy family life more than almost anything else to make a go of it.

That's a really interesting way of looking at it.

Iw24wImI · 18/04/2020 14:39

In a fantasy world, I'd have four. Realistically I think we could manage three at a squeeze. But DH doesn't want a third so we have two.

They are gorgeous. I adore them. I wish we could have another but it would make our house which is lovely for the four of us currently, feel smaller. Bedrooms would have to be shared. The age gap would be a bit odd to me (7,6 and newborn). I'd have another in a flash but because my husband doesn't want to (due to financial stress, hard work, worries about losing me or something being wrong with the baby) I look for the positives in my situation and focus on loving the two I am so so lucky to have already.

Ulver · 18/04/2020 14:41

StillCounting123

I would love to know if the people here so vocal in their opposition to large families would say this out loud to the parents of large families? Or does hiding behind a keyboard help?

If the person asked me what I thought about their family? As the OP did on a message board designed for discussion?
Do you go around giving your unasked for opinion to complete strangers? Why would you assume that anyone else would?
Odd

PlanDeRaccordement · 18/04/2020 14:58

Tabernacles
“I don't think it should be added on to the parents' footprint. But they do need to get their own footprint in order first, and very few westerners have sustainable footprints. Those childfree also need to have a sustainable footprint, which they don't if they're doing those things.”

Yes agree. I’ve sadly read articles and spoken with childfree adults who do think that because they did not have children, they then have a free pass to live their life in a high consumer and high carbon way. I know not everyone that is childfree does that, I have a brother and SIL who are childfree by choice and they live a very green lifestyle not even owning a car. Everyone should be responsible for their own footprint.

And in a country where birth rates are below replacement even with a few like me having more than two kids, the argument that my larger family is hurting the environment falls flat. Some families need to be larger to offset the childfree. And even though I raise them at my expense, it will be my children paying these childfree people’s pensions and healthcare when they are elderly or even physically caring for them. It’s all well and good to say you don’t want children, but every person that reaches old age will need someones child to support them financially through taxes and/or care for them physically as a HCP or care home worker.

PlanDeRaccordement · 18/04/2020 15:07

Considering what we now know about the climate, It's extremely irresponsible and selfish to have more than two children. I think that as time goes on, it will become more and more socially unacceptable to have large families, and rightly so imo

Much of the population impact on climate has been the increased life expectancy. Is it also selfish and irresponsible to live past age 60?
How about infertility treatments? This too has impacted birth rates in women over age 30— increasing births to older women far beyond what nature ever intended. Is this also selfish and irresponsible?

An argument can be made that being childfree is selfish and irresponsible too because each generation cares for the old of the generation before. If you have no children, you are depending on someone else’s child to pay the taxes supporting your pension and healthcare and to physically care for you in a carehome/nursing. You get to keep the money and freedoms from being childfree but still benefit from others having children.

No family, small family, large family- none of these choices is more selfish or irresponsible than the other.

Ulver · 18/04/2020 15:16

I don’t have a problem with large families per se. When it’s against medical advice and dangerous for the mother ie over 10 children, that’s a world away from having five or six in a home with enough bedrooms and financial and emotional support.
In the right circumstances it can be idyllic. In the wrong circumstances horrific imo.

Tsubasa1 · 18/04/2020 15:19

I would love to have a 3rd in the future but the idea of going through pregnancy, labour and the baby years one more time is putting me off. Also impact on future continence although right now I have no problems. Aswell as the extra house work.

Wanttolearnmore · 18/04/2020 15:47

I have a little boy and am 39 weeks pregnant with my second, and last baby. I can't really explain why but I have always just wanted two and that is enough for me , I can't imagine I'll be broody for more, I'm looking forward to being a family of four. To me that seems complete. I am one of two, and I'd prefer not to have to be pregnant again, it is hard going at this point. I am interested in my work and want to/need to financially continue with it so I would not want to be spread too thin in terms of having available time for the children, and wouldn't want the housework that comes with a large family, that side of it is drudgery as far as I'm concerned (not the children themselves). Those with large numbers of children presumably have less of an.issue with the housework side of things or are willing to accept this as part of their decision to have a larger brood.
I am.quite introverted, and so is my dh, however he is 1 of 5. I find his family gatherings quite overwhelming tbh, there are a lot of children however my ds loves having so many cousins/aunts and uncles making a fuss of him! And we get a lot of handmedowns which is useful. . So there's definitely up and down sides and it sounds like those with larger families on here do it because of the joy they get from it.
I'm not sure people decide to have or not have more or any children based on environmental impact alone and that they can claim credit got this, the urge to procreate with someone you love is a strong one if you do have it. Of the people I know who are child free by choice they simply didn't want to have any and I completely respect that. Better than doing it anyway when your heart is not in it.

TankGirl97 · 18/04/2020 15:54

I am one of four and always felt that was too many for me, I wanted two children. However, once we had two, we toyed with the idea of three and ultimately decided to go for it. The one thing that swung it for me was listening to a story on the radio of three siblings, one with serious mental health conditions. The other two talked about having eachother as support. It was a lightbulb moment for me, when I realised just how much I valued the relationships and support I get from my three siblings and how if anything happened to me, DH or one of my children the other child would be left alone to deal with it. I know it's a slightly random justification. Definitely not having more though! (And I'm aware 3 isn't a particularly large family but maybe that's a reason people have more too).

NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace · 18/04/2020 16:00

There is always grandkids right?!

Maybe ....

Emmapeeler1 · 18/04/2020 16:33

You asked why people who wanted more kids stopped where they did, and for me its because DH didn't want more than 2. I struggled with this for a long time but am now happy.

I know myself that being in a large family is fun and noisy (tho can also be stressful). But I am quite glad I was persuaded to stick to 2 because I don't think I am the kind of mum who could have given more than 2 the right about of 1:1 attention. I also think 2 is a good number to manage financially, longer term.

I would also feel slightly guilty if I had more than two from an environmental perspective. I know this is an unpopular thing to say on mumsnet but it's how I feel. It would not have stopped me carrying on if DH hadn't felt so strongly though, because the biological urge to have babies is not rational and nor am I.

em90792 · 18/04/2020 18:16

I stopped at 2, was in an abusive marriage. Got together with my best friend after finally leaving and we have had 1 more, 1 om the way... some families of more than 2 are down to relationship changes etc.
My partner wanted children and for a long time I didnt want anymore. But i also couldnt take that away from him so we decided to have a baby and are currently expecting his 2nd (no4) we plan to have my tubes tied while having c-section and stop at 4.
Were all different and surprisingly to me I actually enjoy having more than 2... even if they drive me up the wall! Yes its expensive, and chaotic at times but I'll be bored once they all grow up! I guess I enjoy being a mum!
I dont think it makes a huge difference physically having 2 or 3, however as they grow this will change I am sure. We will be looking to move to a larger property as they grow to ensure they have thier own personal space instead of sharing rooms but right now it all works ok.
(They are all boys btw - including the expected)

Ginfordinner · 18/04/2020 18:56

There is always grandkids right?!

DD (19) hates babies and has no intention of having children ever. It is her life, and TBH I don’t care either way. As long as she is happy I am happy.

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