Multiple children

[UnaCorda]

I'll probably be accused of being goady for asking this, but I would genuinely like to hear people's thoughts and explanations.

What causes people to decide to have a large family? I mean, assuming it was planned, what did you expect to get out of having four, five or six children - or more - that you didn't get from the first one, two or three? Did it turn out how you imagined?

Obviously this will vary between couples, but do people dispassionately consider the impact on their finances, the available space in their home, demands on their time, the effect on existing children, the toll it takes on your body, and the ramifications for the planet?

Or is it simply a question of procreation being an instinctual drive which, for a lot of people, is too strong to ignore and overrides all practicalities?

Also, if you would have liked to have had a large family but decided against it, what influenced your decision?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Having multiple siblings must be lovely not just in childhood but throughout life

I don’t understand all the slagging off of people with large families on the basis of birth rate. Current birth rate in the UK is 1.7 children per woman, so we’re not maintaining our population as it is. If we shrink too much too quickly, we’ll be stuck with an ageing population and not enough working age adults to support them.

Plus, what really matters is the average. We can’t all have precisely 2 children- some people will want 1 or none, we need some people who have 3+ to balance it out.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/health-49192445

Around where I live it just wouldn't be possible unless you were very rich. A nice 2-bed house is about £450,000! A 5 bed one would be well over a million, unless you want to live on the council estate. We both have good jobs but if we ever wanted >2 kids, we would have to move up North or wait for a relative to die. I guess it's fine if you bought your house 20 years ago when they were still affordable.

@worriedmama16 can I just say that my kids never babysat each other or wore hand me downs.
My home was always clean and tidy, it had to be, and we always had a holiday.
What you said can be equally applied to small families. I have a friend who had two children and their home was a tip. They never went on holiday either.
There are pros and cons to everything.
🙂

I have two but I'd have had four if money were no object - as in I could afford a housekeeper, a bigger house, extra curricular activities for them all and not have to work!

I think having lots of siblings (up to 4 or 5) looks really fun, but the fun would be taken away for us by the stress of keeping up with with chores etc while at work and giving them all enough attention and opportunities.

What I find crazy about this thread is how people seem to judge people who want multiple children as much as they judge me for having an only child. Imho, having 2-3 children is the worst of both worlds. You can't give the financial resources/time the way a parent can give an only child and you don't have the companionship a larger family can have. If there is an age gap, the children might not play and there might be one child left out if 2 children play. Also when it comes to supporting elderly parents, 2 kids are not very useful because usually it seems to be 1 person paying for everything and doing everything whereas with 4 children, it's more likely that they would share out the burden. But obviously having 2-3 children is ok, just like having 1 child, 4 children or even 10 children is ok. We decide how many children we have as an emotional reason and often there is no reason for it at all! .I often try to convince myself that I really want 2 children and I would try to do all this calculations about the cost of 2 children that inflate the cost of a second child because the real reason is that while it is probably true that I can't afford a second child and stay in my expensive London neighborhood (the latter being more important to me), I also don't want to be a mother of 2. I want to the experience of being a mum but I never want to feel like a mummy hen with her little line of chicks who screams at her DH for not helping out cos she is just so stressed. I am someone who is very spoiled by her DH as he cooks all my meals every day and also does a lot of cleaning (he taught himself to cook food from my country) so I guess I don't feel like I can be supermum. Yet I feel a burning need to be a mummy and as my husband is a really devoted husband (we have been married for nearly 5 years so it's not a honeymoon phase), I am sure he would give me a lot of help but I don't feel like his help would be enough to handle mode than 1 child.

@colourmydreams Surely hand me downs is the sensible thing to do for any size family. I hardly ever by clothes for my children as we have beautiful hand me downs from cousins. I also buy a lot of their presents second hand. That just seems responsible to me to prevent less waste and save money.

I have 2. I'm a bit old for more now but if we won the lottery I'd have 2 more if my DH agreed to it! I'd not need to work then and I think I'd be up for a bigger family. At the moment I want to do well in my career and two children plus a full time job is just about manageable for me.

I'm one of 4 (2 are step sibs) and it was fun having a big group to play with. You could get away with more too 😉.

From what I can see, the only people finding this thread ‘goady’ are those with more than three children. Is that because up to three is considered average and anything above that is considered unusual?

Do people with ‘more than average’ numbers of children find societal pressure to explain their choices? Much like child-free women and men? Maybe they do and that’s why it’s so ‘goady’ to them.

I’m just curious. I’m pregnant with my first at the moment so fall into neither camp currently.

I don't think it's goady, people are curious because they often can't imagine how someone could feel so polar opposite to how they do. I can't imagine ever wanting more than 1 kid - I would have a mental breakdown with all that noise and screaming and not having time to yourself. Whereas someone upthread couldn't imagine why someone WOULDN'T want kids. It's a valid question to ask.

I feel sad that DD is an only, but due to infertility issues I didn't have her until I was 41, and then never managed to get pregnant again. Given the choice I would have had two. Both DH and I would absolutely hate the chaotic lifestyle a large family would bring. He is very introverted and hates noise, and would retreat into his office and close the door when DD was smaller and had friends round.

And please can I ask posters to stop with the assumptions that smaller families have large gas guzzling cars, take loads of flights and eat lots of takeaways (although I'm not sure how takeaways contribute to the carbon footprint). It comes across as sour grapes or jealousy.

For the record, I was the first person in my company to ask to have my company car converted to being able to use unleaded petrol (yes, I am that old ), I have been recycling recyclables for years before the council provided household recycling bins, we had solar panels installed years ag, we make our own compost, garden organically, support local businesses (local farm shop where they grow their own vegetables, local butcher that sells locally produced meat), eat a mainly plant based diet and we chose where we live based on the fact that there is a station so that we can use public transport where possible. Basically, we try and minimise our carbon footprint where we can, and all responsible adults should be doing so regardless of family size.

Food for thought: www.independent.co.uk/environment/children-carbon-footprint-climate-change-damage-having-kids-research-a7837961.html

I’ve got four. I like the balance. It doesn’t feel large.
I did consider the environmental aspect. In theory replacing yourselves on the planet by having two makes sense... but life is a funny thing and has emotion, love, sex, relationships. Not to mention accidents, divorces and rape.
We are humans not automatons.

I would say life would be much better if lots of abusive parents hadn't had kids at all rather than people with small families criticise people with 4 children for having so many kids

This is a good point. As a foster carer of abused, traumatised and neglected children I can safely say that some of us are excellent parents raising well rounded, resourceful, people who contribute to society and some can't even manage one. (For various reasons obviously) The amounts of money that dysfunctional families cost the taxpayer in the long-term and not just in obvious things like foster care, residential care etc but prison etc is absolutely eye-watering. I am one of those hopefully breaking this cycle.

Someone else asked whether I'd heard of climate change. Yes, I've also heard of the boogeyman.

And as for the faces Muna and the reference to 'water shortage' there isn't a shortage as such (water cycle?) But I agree we should concern ourselves with those who don't currently have access to it, this is one of the reasons why I have had a direct debit set up to a water charity for years

Oh, and for anyone interested - even my first was a home birth - which actually costs the NHS less.

There are some angry people on here. Sad that venom is directed at loving parents. I suppose that is the obvious end you reach when you feel you have 'made a great sacrifice' by either intentionally not conceiving or even aborting a baby from your womb 'for the environment' and this then makes you feel morally superior, (clue: it's not) thereby making you look down on others as you are angry that they are joyfully having what you could have had...

People saying that large families are close this isn't always the case my dad was one of 12 and none of them really see each other. Whereas my mum who's just got one sibling is really close with them.

I have three but it wasn't my choice. I was happy with two. Wouldn't change third for the world now but at the time it was my ex who pestered and pestered me for another (it was a very abusive relationship) then when I hit 24 weeks decided he had never wanted another and made my life a living hell for the rest of the pregnancy. I'm now a lone parent and as much as I love them all I would never have chosen this number as I don't have the funds to give them an amazing life and I feel they miss out on alot. We are happy but it's not perfect.

I think this has hit a nerve with some people as they have an in built selfish need to reproduce without any thought for the impact for the children or the environment.

I have just one child, though not through choice. The choice was taken away from me by failed biology in my body. I would have liked 2 or 3 children. I am from a big family of 4 kids within 6 years.
None of us are close or even speak now. Growing up was stressful, one bathroom for the whole family, no one on one time with parents.

Presents were all second hand or not the real deal. No proper holidays or experiences due to no money, mum stayed at home. I often remember asking her her why did she have us all.
She didn't seem to enjoy being stuck at home with all the drudgery and was often very angry.

Some people are of a very soft loving and nurturing type and are natural mothers. I am not and I guess now I've made peace with myself in that there's a higher reason I was only allowed one. It's been hell so in hindsight I'm glad.

As long as the mothers of these big families have actually thought about the kids and not their own ovaries then I'm sure they will turn out well.

If children are a financial drain on society then what about disabled people, mentally I'll, uneducated etc? They all cost the tax payer.

Having grown up in a large family it’s not something I would ever do myself to my children. Mine won’t have the same memories of childhood that I do and I’m very happy about that.

I’m sure parents look at it very differently to the actual children and just go ahead with their wants. Lack of money, time, space, hobbies/days out/holidays, help with homework, not on a par with peers, hand me downs so no own choice etc. Not to mention a lot of housework and babysitting needing to be done by the older ones.

We did consider the environmental impact of children as I want them t have a world for their children and so on left. We also considered the future, so many don’t seem to think of that nor the present time itself when it comes to financing a child and the old mantra of “all they need is love” is trotted out.

As others have said, I think it depends on your circumstances. First of all you need to be able to comfortably afford the children you have, and have space for them in your house and time in your day, or it would be stressful and children would go overlooked.

I find the "half life" that many women, myself included, live is difficult. Work on the other hand and raising children on the other. It's very hard to do both well and fully dedicate yourself. I can easily imagine how if I didn't like my job and DP earned good money I would love to have 4+ children. Why not? Spend the day doing work for people you love and spending time with them as opposed to spending your day working for someone else's business, surrounded by collegues with whom your only connection is you work for the same business.

As it is I like my job and we can't afford for me to quit it. So having many children isn't appealing at all, it would mean leaving them in childcare, feeling awful about not spending enough time with them, being stretched too thin and to top it all off not having enough money.

Not that it matters loads, but @tabernacles I don't think it's at all accurate that only the west has large carbon footprint. What about China?? Look at the amount of pollution produced there.

I have 2 children. I always thought I’d have 4 but then myself & my exh split when I was pregnant on number 2. At the time being a single mother I was glad I had only 2 children to look after on my own and now that I’ve gone through the teen years, I thank my lucky stars every day that I don’t have to do that again. Babies & toddlers & Young children are an absolute doddle compared to teens. I had no idea how difficult, heart breaking, worrying that would be. My children are now 22 & almost 18 so I’m out the other side of it mostly but there’s still the worry of them out at clubs (my eldest, youngest has no interest in this yet), the worry of drinking, the terror of drugs etc. I wouldn’t have it in me to worry about any more children.

I am second eldest of 5 (all brothers) and I have 12 nieces & nephews so well used to large families.

I think a lot of women who really enjoy having lots of children have a slightly oblivious, carefree, optimistic personality...thats not a criticism. I know I wouldn't enjoy having lots of children because I'm an over thinker...I wonder what would happen if I became seriously ill, or we lost our home and would worry about the impact that would have and the more children you have, the more the impact. I don't like messy, loud, chaotic houses...it's not enjoyable for me. I can't switch off and enjoy that...I would just think about my to do list of chores and housework.

Of all my friends, going by FB, so over 100, all those who have more than 3 children are either earning over £80k or relying on benefits.

90% of my friends have either 1 or 2 children.

How do parents of large families get through the teenage years stress free? DD had to deal with some horrible stuff as a teenager - health issues, some seriously nasty bullying resulting in borderline anorexia, self harming and depression, friendship issues, relationship break ups, GCSE stress and A level stress.

OK, not all teenagers will have to deal with all of that, but my goodness, dealing with GCSEs x 6 and A levels x 6 is bad enough. Or do you stop worrying about your children the more you have?

Current birth rate in the UK is 1.7 children per woman, so we’re not maintaining our population as it is. If we shrink too much too quickly, we’ll be stuck with an ageing population and not enough working age adults to support them.

But isn't this potentially a vicious circle whereby the increased carers required then become old themselves and require more carers, and so on....?

But isn't this potentially a vicious circle whereby the increased carers required then become old themselves and require more carers, and so on....?

Exactly. But people will say anything to justify the here and now choices that they make.

The planet is not yet over populated and probably won’t be. Birth rates are slowing world wide. The projections I’ve seen show that they will most likely level off to replacement rate
There is enough agricultural land currently under cultivation to feed another 3 billion people
We have easy cheap ways to convert sea water to fresh water

Quiet astonishing.