To be sick of 'if you voted for the Tory government then you're a hypocrite for clapping'

[ScarletFever]

I've seen this a lot on social media, and I didn't vote tory (I voted anyone but tory) but I feel that people are clapping to show they are thankful for the nhs firstly, but also for the other front line workers, the carers and cleaners and bin men and everyone else who is doing their bit.

I'll probably get down voted to hell, but the sanctimonious 'oh you're such a hypocrite ' is just so wearing

Some people would really benefit from reading up on the ideologies underpinning political parties.

(Old) Labour: loosely socialist

• focus on the collective, society as a group
• class analysis
• society working as a collective / sharing to improve things for all
• state as the leveller/equaliser to ensure people have equal access and nice things
• this usually means more state run programmes like infrastructure, public transport, NHS, libraries, state owned art galleries l, welfare, social housing. And taxes to go with it.
• more societal rules so we all behave towards each other

Conservative: loosely liberal

• focus on the individual, “there is no such thing as society”
• individual freedom (to work, to own property, to buy what we want, to say what we want)
• as small a state as possible. The state’s role is to ensure there is just enough security and stability (eg police, laws, military etc) for individuals and businesses to operate
• the market should be free and will provide solutions (if people want schools, roads, services, they will pay for them. See: private schools, toll roads, our rail system, private art galleries like the Tate ).
• Competition will make things operate better (see academies & free schools, NHS operating models where particularly maintenance and cleaning are private).
• lower taxes. It’s not the state’s role to decide what your money should be spent on. People will pay more for things they value (and it’s not the state’s role to mandate pay).

Neither Labour nor Conservative will rigidly adhere to these principles. They will often do what is popular or what they think will be acceptable to the public.

New Labour was essentially a hybrid where the state introduced private competition into state models, and also maintained social spending. Much of this competition was because there had been years of underfunded state services so the cash needed to ‘catch up’ was huge. This competition aspect has continued.

It is very foolish to rely upon manifestos. You’re ultimately voting for an approach.

You are obviously feeling guilty op

How the hell do you work that out?

I'm a bit torn. I do agree that by voting Tory you actively created a situation where these people were put in dangerous and unfair situations on the other hand I think now is the time to be positive and push for productive change. Hopefully people will now be more aware of the state of the NHS and it's need for funding and will change accordingly. Retributions and name calling won't help.

I missed the point where the election was just a vote on the NHS. People vote for a party for a myriad of reasons. There might be plenty of Tory Voters who don’t agree with their Policy on the NHS or for whom it wasn’t the biggest priority. I doubt all Labour voters agreed with all their policies either. That isn't a get out of jail free card, you don't vote for bits of their manifesto, you vote for it and if you disagree with something enough you don't vote for them. So if a party stood with a list of thing you agreed with but one item was that women couldn't attend university as higher education was for men and you voted for them then you would be voting for that. Pointless afterwards to say, "Oh I am a feminist, I think it is awful that women can't get an education but you know I did agree with their foreign policy, tax policy and stance on law and order."

I missed the point where the election was just a vote on the NHS. People vote for a party for a myriad of reasons.

Yes but clearly the NHS wasn't significantly important to you if other factors allowed you to vote for a party that was damaging the NHS (and education).

1forsorrow

The example you give is so completely different and irrelevant to the issue being debated that your whole post becomes completely nonsensical.
If the conservative policy was to stop all budget to the NHS rather than continue to increase it (not a real terms increase but a monetary increase nonetheless) then you may have had a slight point.

And I don’t need a ‘get out of jail free card’
It’s only bigoted left wingers who think everyone should be chastised for not voting the same way as them.

why no it wasn’t one of my top 5 priorities.
But neither is the way Asda is run but I still say thank you to staff for good service.
I can’t personally thank doctors and nurses so the clap says thanks.

Clapping is a great way to acknowledge the courage and dedication of frontline NHS staff

They risk their lives daily to save others

I don't think politics is important for clapping

The official Tory line here seems to be "not my problem guv".

No it doesn't work like that. You can't say you voted Conservative because you were afraid Jeremy Corbyn would dismantle your precious Trident, no you have to be accountable for everything that party does now.

I'll make it really simple.

I voted labour, how much accountability do I have? NONE.

You voted Conservative, how much accountability do you have? 100%

kathy
Wow - so everyone who voted Labour in 1997 is accountable for the deaths of millions of Iraqis?
According To you there should be a lot of very ashamed Labour voters around.
Perhaps you’d like to publically shame them since it’s a hobby of yours...

I voted labour, always have. I still think you calling out someone on social media under the guise of ‘caring for the vulnerable’ is despicable behaviour. And you continuing to defend yourself instead of reflecting on what people saying to you means you are pretty low.

And I don’t clap the NHS. I give them money instead.

I don’t think northernwarrior read the OP

As a labour voter, I'm embarrassed to be linked with you in any way @KathyBriggs360
Do you think either the past or new Labour leader would support your treatment of that poor neighbour? I don't.

As a labour voter, I'm embarrassed to be linked with you in any way @KathyBriggs360**

Ditto.

Wow - so everyone who voted Labour in 1997 is accountable for the deaths of millions of Iraqis?

Good point.

'100% accountability' for starting the Iraq war apparently....

@Smileyaxolotl1

The point is if you vote for a party who are undermining the NHS (and it was reasonable obvious this was their policy on election day) then you are accountable for that. Presumably when you voted you thought other things were more important than a better funded NHS and education system - obviously you're entitled to hold that view but you do have to accept some responsibility for the consequences of that. We knew at some point there would be a pandemic we didn't prepare and this is the result. You can say "well I still think the other reasons for voting Tory were justified because of XYZ and it was worth having a worse NHS" or you can say "that was a mistake we should have invested more in the NHS I'm disappointed in our government" but you can't as an intelligent voter say I bare no responsibility for voting in a party that I knew wouldn't sufficiently fund the NHS.

You don't have to be accountable for everything the Tory party does - there wasn't a pandemic when we voted so you don't know they would have made the mistakes they have made but you do have to be responsible for them chronically underfunding the NHS. An intelligent voter knows that was happening - and if you voted for the anyway that's absolutely your responsibility.

why
But the question the thread is discussing isn’t
‘Should people who voted Conservative bare some responsibility for the NHS having less money than if Labour had got in?’
It was basically should people who voted Tory be allowed to clap for NHS workers?
Do you honestly think that if Labour had got in and chucked money at the NHS as they like to do it would have been spent on PPE or ventilators?

Wow - so everyone who voted Labour in 1997 is accountable for the deaths of millions of Iraqis? Was that in their manifesto? I don't remember that.

and baring in mind the staggering ineptitude of Labour as an opposition during the last parliament I am totally confident that they would have made an even bigger balls up of this crisis than The Tories have.

1forsorrow
Well neither was privatising or destroying the NHS in the Conservative manifesto but doesn’t stop people like you from telling Tory voters that’s what they voted for.

I am totally confident that they would have made an even bigger balls up of this crisis than The Tories have. You might believe that but you will never actually know, on the other hand we do know what a mess the Tories have made.

By the way I didn't vote Labour so maybe check your facts.

1forsorrow
I never said you did.

Well neither was privatising or destroying the NHS in the Conservative manifesto but doesn’t stop people like you from telling Tory voters that’s what they voted for

Yes, im finding the above very interesting...perhaps someone can point out where it said that in the tory manifesto