To think more women would stay single if it wasn't for societal pressure

[penelopepitstopsgain]

When you consider women live longer when single, are less likely to suffer mental, emotional and physical distress (16 women and children have been murdered to date since lockdown in the UK) there is a strong public health case that staying single is better for women; yet society often frowns on it and other women often"pity" single women.

FWIW i'm in a LTR, but I've never had an issue being single... in many cases it's been preferable for my peace of mind!

On here you see it time and time again.. women hanging on to the lowest forms of life sometimes with horrific consequences for them and their children, all for that dreaded fear of being alone and it got me thinking..

If there was a PR campaign that positioned being single as the healthy option it is, more women would be brave enough to opt out.

YABU - Women want relationships and society has no influence

YANBU - If single was the norm more women would make that choice

@annamaria14 I'm aware of that. I think it's around 20% of women who don't have children.

The 20% though , does that include women who may go on to have children .
That seems a very high figure.
Thinking of all the women who are past child bearing age or of all the women I know who have passed the stage of meeting their partner and settling down with them, I don’t know that many child free women.
So unless we look at the percentage of say women over 60 who don’t have children it can’t be an accurate picture.
Even then times have changed. For the majority of older women say 80 year olds , there was huge pressure to marry and have a child.
There wasn’t reliable contraception either.
So a study would have to be done in years to come of all the 60 year old women.

Off the top of my head I only know 2 child free women. Obviously I know younger child free women. But I’m talking friends over 50 who are child free. One never wanted children and I have no idea about the other one.

Both are married though .

@emilybrontescorsett In November 2017, the Office for National Statistics published figures showing that at the age of 45, 18% of British women were childless.

Oh ok.
That’s fair enough. I imagine that figure might increase as more women choose to remain child free.

Sorry, I shouldn't have used to word childless, as I hate that word! I just lifted the text directly from an article though.

@emilybrontescorsett It's interesting that you've found that this average figure doesn't correlate with the female friends you have, but I imagine it must vary a lot between groups.

I'm mid 30's without children, and only 2 out of 10 of my closest friends have children. Of the 2 that do have children, most of their friends also have children and they say they hardly know anyone who doesn't. So it would seem perhaps the childfree flock together?

And vice versa, of course.

Yes true.
Although I’m older and am thinking from people my age and above. I know quite a lot of younger women without children but of course that doesn’t mean anything.

I think it's a fairly natural instinct to want a relationship with someone else, and a mutually supportive loving relationship is a really good thing, if you want that. However I have known women go from one total moron straight to another when their relationships end, or put up with a lot of crap for years, and I just don't understand this. I think these women don't have enough self esteem to think they are worth anything on their own , or can't see what is acceptable or not behaviour from their partner. As a society we have to do more to make women realise they are worth more than this.
I definitely felt pressure when I was single, I lost count of the times I was asked "when will you get married" in the run up to my sister's wedding, (what a stupid question I was single at the time , how would I know? Was about 25 at the time. ). I tend not to ask people about relationships these days, I just let people share their relationship details or single status if they want to it doesn't need to define you.

wanttolearnmore I completely agree- too many women flail from one inappropriate man to another for no logical reason and ti their own detriment. I also have friends who stayed in loveless marriages/ relationships for many years.

I divorced when my children were young and was MUCH happier on my own. My rx-H and my children were also much happier. I have since been fortunate enough to have met the best person I've ever known. He adds enormously to all our lives and life is so much better than ever before. We had another DC, but if I hadn't met him I'd have been content to be on my own for the rest of my life. Essentially, it depends on if you meet the right person not ANY person which, I agree with OP society seems to put forward.

Bam- marriage doesn’t give children ‘legal protection’ the best way to ensure children are provided for is for their mother to be financially independent

Yes and no. I mean, realistically for most people, it's difficult to buy a property without apartner..and even if you didn't care about buying a property and you could continue paying private rental into retirement/had an inheritance, having a partner also means that you have a partner's wage to rely on if you lost your job and you wouldn't be completely at the mercy of the benefits system (esp relevant in the time of covid 19). That's not societal expectations, it's just the reality that it doesn't cost much more money to support a (childless) couple compared to an individual.

But of course if you didn't have a partner who share his finances with you, you are way better off single.. many women seem to have really bad taste in men (they seem to pick out the man with the most confidence, which may or may not be good husband material). I don't think it's their fault necessarily, a lot of men out there are really good at making big promises and breaking all of them. I think women should marry and marriage is a good framework under which women can achieve financial security by pooling resources with another income earner. But every woman needs to have a career so that the framework doesn't become a death trap

Modern society and economy is such that to have children one needs to have a husband or be poor.

Look at the number of threads about changing name upon marriage. It is almost always assumed that the children will have the father’s name. We have been convinced this is the natural way of things but it’s only our economy and social norms that make it so.

I believe in fathers’ rights because modern society/economy has also attached men to their children so they love them too but it hasn’t been the natural way of things until recently.

Marriage and the practice of giving / taking / choosing wives was quite openly seen as a way to control women’s reproduction and to maintain alliances. It’s only recently that love and romance had come into it, almost as a way to lull women into doing what was previously demanded of them. Of course, when it works it feels great so people keep holding on in the hopes that it will work for them.

@RomeoLikedCapuletGirls also because of the class magnifier effect. Wealthy men tend to marry high earning women so their spending power is now 2 X a single person. The norm now is dual income couples. Even if you don't have any children, you can afford far less than a dual income couple which means your standard of living is lower. Also our tax system means that a couple earning a combined income of £70k takes home far more than a single £70k higher rate tax payer.

I get this all the time. As if having a man is what defines you and makes your existence a worthy one. It’s incredibly sad. I love the single life. I love the peace of mind and freedom of choice it’s gives me as I was in a very toxic and controlling marraige once.

I am 36 and I love the single life!

People saying on here that some women need a man to help pay the mortgage.

You don't HAVE to get a mortgage either.

Work remotely and travel around Europe and stay in air b and bs. I did that in my thirtes for two years. With air b and bs you only pay the rent - no bills and no council tax.

You can do whatever you want in your orecious life!!

In Air B and B - you can rent a flat for months. No deposit needed, no bills , no council tax.

I stayed in gorgeous flats around Europe, and worked remotely

Modern society and economy is such that to have children one needs to have a husband or be poor

I'm planning on giving a second child a whirl. First conceived "conventionally", second would be via sperm donor. Exciting times!

@Annamaria14 I am sure that is amazing. But a lot of people worry about retirement and where they would live. Of course you dont need to marry, you can club together with a likeminded friend.

I was widowed last year. It took precisely two weeks for the first person to "reassure" me that it didn't mean I would be alone forever and I would meet someone new. I have had similar conversations since, in which I reiterate that I will never date again, and the other person mistakes my decision for some kind of humble demurral of my attractiveness to men and says "never say never" or "you're only 40, don't be silly". It pisses me off. DH was my person, I don't want anyone else.

‘On here you see it time and time again.. women hanging on to the lowest forms of life sometimes with horrific consequences for them and their children, all for that dreaded fear of being alone and it got me thinking.’

Women don’t leave relationships because they don’t want their children to be homeless, not because they are afraid of being alone.

AndNoneForGretchenWieners

Women don’t leave relationships because they don’t want their children to be homeless, not because they are afraid of being alone

And yet you quite often see posted on the relationships bored "I'm not happy but I don't want to be alone".

Women don’t leave relationships because they don’t want their children to be homeless, not because they are afraid of being alone.

Not always. I know people who are wealthy and who stay in piss poor relationships because they cannot bear the idea of being single. Utterly tragic.

I was a single mum and so piss poor that I think I probably 'found myself a man' just to have something to look forward to (we didn't live together). Someone to talk to (that wasn't one of the kids)...just something that was outside my daily grind to try to pay the council tax, buy food, pay more bills, buy school uniform, pay more bills.

Life as a single woman with kids, was just dire. We drove around in old bangers, never went on holiday, ate cheap food and wore cheap clothes.

Kids have left now. I'm still a pitiful earner, but an inheritance enabled me to buy my own home and the difference is HUGE. I won't be coupling up again, I can survive on my own. But have every sympathy for those who remain in relationships to keep a roof over their heads and the bills paid.