To ask how you are supposed to discipline 16 year olds

[B1gL1ttleStar]

I really am at a loss.

Ds is rude, disrespectful and lazy. Will be doing ALevels next year and I foresee much laziness as regards school work and X Box time.

Dh helpfully said in front of him that it’s time to leave him to it and the parenting days are over. Ds keeps firing that at me now.

The polite suggestion that he do the small amount of homework he has been set today was met with rudeness, foul language, disrespect and the fact that my parenting days are apparently over.

I really am at a loss as to what to do. Dh doesn’t like the stress taking phone away as a punishment brings and says he’s an adult and it’s an infringement of his rights. He also says we should have nothing to do with school work or trying to get him off his xbox now. All in front of him. The consequences of him having no future is a big enough punishment apparently.

Seems to me that giving ds all day Xbox time and no consequences for not carrying out his responsibilities is ridiculous. Surely us working full time, cooking, cleaning and washing for him whilst he sits on his backside is educating him that you can put in zilch and get back everything.Surely at 16 you’re still learning and need guidance/ immediate consequences.Why should we fund him to do very little?

I have taken away phone and Xbox as punishments( when he swears at me ) which causes WW3. I have suggested during lock down he has 3/4 hours out of 16 hours away from screens and is off them by 10pm.Both of them say I’m a dictator.Apparently I’m a Hitler and doing it all wrong as regards discipline so with that in mind I’d like some proper guidance.

If you have a 16 to 18 year old in full time education what are your expectations and consequences re laziness and rudeness/ disrespect?

What are your expectations and consequences during lockdown/ holidays?

Ok re Xbox.. yes I think 10pm cut off (especially when he doesn’t have school to get up for) is unreasonable. Perhaps for a 12 year old, but definitely not by 16.
Re mobile phone.. personally I would never take back a gift. In my world gifts are given without conditions. My ds plans to start paying his own contract when he turns 18 / leaves for uni.
Re the swearing.. It’s just not something I tolerate. But I don’t have a husband swearing at me as a role model for them. Kids don’t do as they’re told, they do as they see.
I get you’re at the end of your tether, but you’re feeding the conflict by laying down the law. And (without sounding like a broken record) the real problem is your husband.

I would talk to him about the Xbox at the same time, or in another calm conversation. What are your worries? Can you come to a compromise? If you give him room to be reasonable, maybe he will. It just seems to be something to lock horns on at the moment, take the heat out of it.

TBH, I would try not to be overly bothered about it at the moment. The world has crashed down around them. A few months spending all hours on the Xbox isn't going to harm him long term.

My priorities would be no more rudeness or swearing (I don't mind my kids swearing but not at someone, it's a red line) and pulling a bit more weight. If you are calmer you can try and point out that you all need to pull together, but that won't work if you are just telling him what he's doing wrong all the time. Nobody likes that!

I posted upthread about separating the 2 issues, school and behaviour, but you have them all tangled together in a mess.

Back off on school work. Seriously. and don't just randomly stop, but sit down with ds. Tell him youhave been thinking, and you'd liek to try a different approach. Tell him that school work is between him and school. If school are asking him, and he doesn't do it, and school isn't imposing consequences, wel, then he has zero incentive to work, and I don't blame him.
My ds did almost nothing after GCSEs. I would have loved him to do something constructive, but he didn't. Then in September he got himself a Saturday job and pulled his finger out and started working.

So, calmly tell him that school work at the moment is between him and school.

Second. The X-box. To be honest? if staying on the X-box for hours is his way of coping with lock down, well, it won't kill him. So, in that calm conversation, I would throw it back to him. He is 16, you are going to let him decide how he spends his time, with a couple of rule sin place (see below) but you expect consideration, eg quiet when you go to bed. 10pm is very early. Teen all play at night, so you are cutting him off from his friends. The better way may be to say you aren't allowed on unitil 2pm if you want to limit time.

Third the phone. Well you took this away because he swore at you and was vile.
This to me is the key issue. Don't tie it up with the school work and x-box. This is the place where I would be firm. So, I would say - you swore at me. This is my home and I don't expect to be sworn at in my own home. You are 16. I don't swear at you, you don't swear at me. When you treat me with such rudeness and lack of respect, then I will remove something, x-box/phone/wi-fi etc. If you want me to treat you like an adult, then behave like one, in this area that means no swearing, no foulness towards me. I would put a time on the phone being removed eg 1 week. Only returned if he is not being rude/swearing.

Then the basics of the family are that he does one (or two) helpful job per day (I have a list for my kids so they can choose). You could add a couple of weekly jobs on (mine are cooking once a week at the moment). Acknowledge that he is moving towards adulthood, that things will change but as part of that comes responsibility. Jobs.
If the jobs dont get done, then either turn off the wi-fi, or don;t do something he wants, eg cook him dinner (be carefful though, if he can cook himself a pizza from the freezer, he might not care)

Sorry htis is long, but you need to let go of sone things, and be zero tolerance on others. At the moment it feels as if you want tight control of all of them

The real issue is the HUGE disrespect. It’s outrageous.

I would maybe just try a “I wash my hands of this” approach. Eg - use as much x box as you like, do as little school work as you like - not my problem. But absolutely do NOT do a single fucking thing for
Him (or your fucking deadbeat, shithead husband) until you get a bit of
Fucking respect. I’m livid reading this. Why the hell would you do anything for someone who calls you a cunt?! They can do
Their own washing and their own cooking. I wouldn’t really bother interacting with them either until they can be civil.

I found this book really helpful

"Get out of my life... But first take me and Alex to town"

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0050U8BH4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awdb_t1_zRiMEb5DR7W4W?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

You're legally NOT required to look after him. I'm not suggesting you do kick him out but yes you can kick him out. He can leave home at 16 and you are not legally allowed to stop him . You need to be proactive in looking after yourself this has gotten out of hand and your dh is persistently kicking you when you're down. I don't think changes to discipline are going to work till you tackle the underlying problems.

Do people who make the suggestions of *well, if he wants to be treated that way, give as good as you get" actually have teenagers?

You are still the adult in this situation and you still have to keep parenting, even if it's "no longer needed" and even it's hard. This kind of approach will seriously backfire on you and won't achieve the goal of calming the house down and coming to a better understanding of each other. Which is what you really want, not to "teach him a lesson" - he really won't learn it this way!

Hmm I do think you should leave the schoolwork and the xbox but you cant have him talking to you like that and he knows it is unacceptable.

Are there any points during the day when you can have a conversation civilly - perhaps side by side on your walk? Explain how that made you feel and your fears about what is going on - and then really listen to him, dont fill the silences - what does he want? what is he scared of?

If he wont engage at all verbally then you could text it to him or have a whatsapp conversation. But you need to connect - and yes it is exhausting for it all to be so one-sided and on you but that's why raising teens is so much worse than toddlers.

With Dh I would be nearly at an ultimatum tbh - he needs to step up and read a parenting teenage boys book.

I wonder what your relationship with your DS was like before lockdown @B1gL1ttleStar? Did you and DS get on and this is a sudden change or has it been like this for some time? I'm guessing the latter, in which case, it might just be the wrong time for you effect positive change (or it might even be too late), especially without DH's support. If you don't already have the kind of relationship where your DS will talk to you about how he's feeling, then why would that change now? I think as a family you don't have healthy boundaries of respect for each other, so why would your DS be any different?

So my recommendation would be to ease back on your dictatorial style - no-one likes that, even less under the stressful times we are facing now. Talk to your DS, explain your concerns, listen to his, tell him you love him and want the best for him. Maybe ask if he needs support for his school work - perhaps he's finding it difficult? Or he's struggling mentally? If he still refuses to engage, then you have to let him get on with his choices. At 16 he's old enough to understand the consequences.

As for the swearing, my DS has done it once to me. I said he needed to go and calm down and I would talk to him when he was calm. When I did talk to him, I explained how upset I was love and did not feel I deserved to be sworn at, that I understood he was angry but he needed to walk away if he felt like that again. He got upset that he'd upset me, apologised, we moved on and he's never sworn again - he now walks away, calms down and we talk it through.

Why is school giving him work if no GCSEs? I have a 15 yr old and she has no work, nothing. Both my teens are up late and in bed sleeping late but we eat Every evening meal together and go on walks.

I would be horrified if mine used that sort of language, . how long has he been speaking that way? It doesn't just suddenly happen

We received a note from our HT today who said - do not fall out with your kids over school work - good relationships with the people we live with is the key to getting us through this - if she's saying this it must be true - she's not normally so human!

I think that @steppemum makes very good points. They're worth a try.

I still think you'd better off without your useless DH though.

I really feel for you, am livid reading this, what a pair of selfish and abusive horrors! Masculinity at its worse.
I have no advice except that you have to preserve yourself. Disengage from them. How is the rest of your relationship with your husband? You need counselling at the very minimum. Don’t waste your own life like this. It is equally valuable as everyone else’s. Take care and I hope this improves for you.

As many have said, the problem is your husband not your DS. But you're just not listening.

Even if your DH disagrees with you this should be done privately.

He is consistently modelling poor behaviour towards you, belittling you and putting you down.

You don't say what the split of chores is in your household. If you do the lion's share then just stop. Don't do it for your DH either.

I'd take a moment when all is calm and say that you've been thinking. You can all try it your DH and DS's way instead.

Explain that if your DS wants to be treated like an adult, fine. Adults don't get pocket money so it stops, and he does things for himself. He can earn money from you by doing jobs. If he would like you to do his washing he needs to ask nicely. Otherwise he does it himself. Don't get snacks in. Provide a meal to eat together. He joins you, or no food. If he'd just eat toast or cereal just buy something different. Something adult like porridge or all bran. Nice multiseeded bread rather than sliced.

You also need to be crystal clear with your DH that he must NOT undermine you or you will be reassessing your relationship too.

FWIW we gave the 'reap what you sow' talk a lot earlier. We haven't limited screen time, phones are allowed in bedrooms at night and they set their own bedtimes. This has been since about year 8. If you're tired, go to sleep earlier etc.

But equally if clothes aren't in the washing basket they don't get washed. No underwear? Obviously wasn't in the washing basket. I've not tidied bedrooms for years. If they want to live in a stinky heap they can (and did for a while) but now their rooms are relatively tidy.

Key thing is to keep calm.

"I don't like your behaviour DS and I don't like the way that you talk to me. If you want me to treat you with respect then you need to do the same for me. I've tried my best to help you start to build a future for yourself but you clearly aren't interested so I'm going to stop wasting my energy. You want to be treated like an adult so I'm going to. If you change your mind then let me know... "

Then stop the washing, snacks etc. And wait for the penny to drop.

"What should I do about the Xbox though? It just doesn’t seem right letting him sit on it 16 hours a day solid when he knows full well he should be doing work. I sort of feel like fine screw up your life but you don’t get the pleasure of playing games all day whilst others in the family are working to support you iykwim."

I wouldn't do anything about the Xbox. Set out / negotiate your expectations of what you want him to do in terms of housework and schoolwork each day. Once he's done that, his time is his own to spend as he pleases.

But if he doesn't do his allocated chores, that's when you can take away phone / controllers etc...

That's what I do with my 16 year old. She needs reminders (lots) but does get her chores done.

Changing the WiFi password is the easiest form of punishment nowadays and so effective. I would include your disrespectful DH in this. Change the WiFi password including the “management” password on the router and don’t let either your DH or DS on until they comply

If I was in your shoes I’d be leaving my husband. What a vile man!

I’d disengage completely from both of them and just go my own thing. I would cook, clean, washing for either of them. I certainly wouldn’t be speaking to anyone that was so disrespectful. Disengage completely and when lockdown is over I’d seriously think about leaving.

OP, I really feel for you. It sounds like you're in a lonely, hurtful place. I find that I react on a much bigger level when I feel that way and it does sound like your reactions carry a lot of baggage. Firstly, just take a minute to acknowledge you really are in a hard place and that you have been let down, deal with husband later - you're definitely not supposed to parent him. Secondly, acknowledge to yourself that nothing you have done thus far has helped - not blaming you or asking you to bear all responsibility but if your techniques are not working then desist. Thirdly, if you decide to go with the contract parenting (you do x and I'll permit y) you will be exhausted maintaining it and you are putting yourself in a place where you have to monitor, negotiate and penalise all them time. I would just try to neutralise this perhaps by saying it's the wrong path for everyone and that at this point parenting is really about helping him make healthy choices. Ask him when there would be a good time to take the boxing gloves off and just sort out a few things between yourselves. Let him know that there are a few things you can't negotiate on (aggression/support for his future). Acknowledge any effort he has made without telling him what was wrong with it. Tell him you've found it really hard and hurtful and perhaps sympathise if he has felt same. Can you tell him you love him and miss him and hope good things for him? Can you say you'll listen and consider his views. Can you tell him that you hope he can listen too? Going forward some humour and even generally fakery of goodwill and smiles may help him take off his armour. I think it is ok to say you don't have a plan but you know what you can/not work with. Finally, give him chance & time to respond, then thank him. Sixteen year olds do not have all the answers and make a lot of mistakes, same goes for mums I find.

Don't worry about x box it's a lockdown what else can teens do? I'd be suggesting splitting the time though, ok play x box but we go for a walk later etc . There wouldn't be any school work if he is 16 as exams are cancelled.

I'm in shock he called you the C word, that deserves the x box going away for a week.

We have Microsoft Family set up on our Xbox which limits when the children can log on and how long they can play for. My DS1 is 17 and he is currently restricted to between 7 a.m. and 7 p.m. for three hours maximum. During normal school time he had one hour Monday to Thursday and two hours Friday to Saturday within those same hours. He gets a warning with 15 minutes to go so that he has time to save his game then it automatically cuts out. It's easy to add on extra time so it can also be used as a reward system e.g. if you do x then you can have an extra hour of Xbox time.

I promised myself I was going to step away from the thread as my posts didn't seem to be helping th OP. However this appeared on my facebook feed and I thought it might be helpful. I hope you are feeling a bit better today OP. [Flowers]

[https://www.facebook.com/45300632440/posts/10156803680047441/]

Damn, not a click link. Anyway it's from Jacinda Ardern the NZ PM who is talking to a world renowned child psychologist. Frekkin love Jacinda.

Your dh is the biggest problem tell both of them your leaving after lockdown or tell them to leave.
Do your own washing and cooking now and leave them to do their own to they both appreciate you.
Have time to yourself. Read watch a movie
Just ignore the 2 off them

I wouldn't take phone or gadgets off ds during lockdown let him play away 24/7 he will eventually fall asleep it's his life if he doesn't want to listen

Ask him how he will feel if all his friends are going to university and hes not.
Maybe he shouldn't do A levels if hes not interested let him make his choices

I was going to suggest turning off the WiFi or changing the password. It's impersonal but it's effective. Tell him you're going to do it if he doesn't follow a set or rules you need to agree with your ds, with your DH's backing. He has to be on board, otherwise you'll get nowhere. If he won't - well, I'd be inclined to decamp for a couple of weeks and leave them to get on with it. It's tricky at the moment, I know, but just not being there and leaving your DH to deal with the chaos his refusal to parent his child causes, might just open his eyes.

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time.

I have two teenagers and know what they can be like.

As others have said I think your main problem is not having a supportive partner.

Other than getting rid of him or leaving both of them to wallow for a week without you (neither practical in lockdown), it's difficult to know what to suggest.

But you need to do something for your own sanity. Anything like taking away access the x box, phone, etc will just have them ganging up on you and the situation will escalate.

I think your only option is to withdraw both physically and emotionally. Do nothing for either of them, prepare your own food, wash up your own stuff, wash your own clothes. Try to relax. Go out for walks. Write about how you feel. After a few days they should be puzzled and confused. Suggest you have a family chat and keep your voice low. Explain how you feel and that you'd like some respect and basic courtesy. Emphasise that you're a team and they all need to pull together.

Good luck 💐