To ask how you are supposed to discipline 16 year olds

[B1gL1ttleStar]

I really am at a loss.

Ds is rude, disrespectful and lazy. Will be doing ALevels next year and I foresee much laziness as regards school work and X Box time.

Dh helpfully said in front of him that it’s time to leave him to it and the parenting days are over. Ds keeps firing that at me now.

The polite suggestion that he do the small amount of homework he has been set today was met with rudeness, foul language, disrespect and the fact that my parenting days are apparently over.

I really am at a loss as to what to do. Dh doesn’t like the stress taking phone away as a punishment brings and says he’s an adult and it’s an infringement of his rights. He also says we should have nothing to do with school work or trying to get him off his xbox now. All in front of him. The consequences of him having no future is a big enough punishment apparently.

Seems to me that giving ds all day Xbox time and no consequences for not carrying out his responsibilities is ridiculous. Surely us working full time, cooking, cleaning and washing for him whilst he sits on his backside is educating him that you can put in zilch and get back everything.Surely at 16 you’re still learning and need guidance/ immediate consequences.Why should we fund him to do very little?

I have taken away phone and Xbox as punishments( when he swears at me ) which causes WW3. I have suggested during lock down he has 3/4 hours out of 16 hours away from screens and is off them by 10pm.Both of them say I’m a dictator.Apparently I’m a Hitler and doing it all wrong as regards discipline so with that in mind I’d like some proper guidance.

If you have a 16 to 18 year old in full time education what are your expectations and consequences re laziness and rudeness/ disrespect?

What are your expectations and consequences during lockdown/ holidays?

If you're parenting days are over stop washing for him, don't touch his room.Tell him that you will give him food and a roof over his head until he's 18 and then only help as long he he's in education

And indeed, he might be fine with that. My DS started doing all these things for himself around that time. He actually take pride in doing so. Win win resolution.

I’ve taken the approach that it’s currently half term, but overall- the Govt. says you need to be in education, employment or training. As far as I’m concerned one of those needs to be happening and be taken seriously- I don’t care which one- but as PP have said- either take the school work seriously or go and get a job and pay rent.........

Oh dear,
Why did you ask for backup from your DH while your DS was present in the room?
“We have argued in front of ds.”

You can’t start this discussion with your DH until you are in private. You also need to keep in mind now, that you will have to compromise on some things. Your DH won’t be able to agree to do a 180 on everything he’s already said in front of DS and you.

2 different issues here

1. school - I assume he should ahve sat his GCSEs and hasn't? Well, if that is the case, back off on school. If school are setting him sork, and he doesn't do it, then they will have the comebakc eg saying that it will effect how they assess his grades. as long as he is clear on that, then tell him that what happens with school work is between him and school.

A levels will be based on GCSE results. When he gets to sixth form, then it is between him and school how he is doing.

1. His attitude. Personally, given the situation we are in, I would not be bothered by screen time. I would be bothered by his attitude. He should be helping out at home, taking turns to cook etc. But the question I have is whether of not this is a new concept or if he has always had to help? If it is new, you will have a battle.

I would sit him down, and be clear - what he does with his time is up to him, but he has to help around the house, do his fair share. So, if he isn't prepared to do that, then you are not prepared to fund him. So wi-fi goes off as soon as he doesn't do his fair share.

He is nearly an adult, but not yet. I have a 17 year old, and we have had the conversation about adult v not adult many times! We do negotiate the boundary though.

If DS wants to be treated like an adult, he has to behave like one with a reasonable degree of self suffiency. You are not his unpaid skivvy. Some study, exercise and domestic responsibility is a reasonable expectation at this time (the importance of study is dependent on if he is y11 or y12).

Don't threaten to throw him out or cut transport.

You need a calm logical talk with DH. He really is not helping here.

Steppemum
Great post, just a quick question as my niece is in U.K. and should have sat her GCSEs
You said “ If school are setting him sork, and he doesn't do it, then they will have the comebakc eg saying that it will effect how they assess his grades”

My brother has told me that the U.K. Gov has stipulated that schools are not allowed to use any work set after the lockdown towards their GCSE grades. So, not doing any school work now, should have no effect on the GCSE grades. Have you not heard the same?

You need to have a united front with your dh and stop being scared of a 16 year old.

You say if you take the phone / xbox away WW3 happens - so what, let it happen!

Do you give him money? I wouldn't confiscate anything just tell him what he has to do to get his pocket money and if he doesn’t do it he doesn’t get the money. That includes screen time, homework etc.
When I was 16 I stopped getting any help from my parents because I wanted to be an adult. With that came responsibility not just freedom.

I have no tips on how to do it apart from just banging on till the message gets through.

My DD (17) is going to college next term. Moving out. We were sat at the kitchen table yesterday and she said to me she'd been looking through "What I Wish I had Known Before I went to Uni" type lists on forums. And "I wish I'd learned to cook. ...how to make my bed... and ...do Laundry" were near the top of everyone's list.

She got as near as she ever gets to saying, 'thank you for making me do all that crap I didn't want to do'.

She doesn't DO that much of all of the above though she does does some of all of them (occasionally without prompting). But knowing she CAN is what was important.

I’ve raised 3 teens
Always treated them with respect
Trusted them to make the correct choices for themselves.
Allowed them freedom ,gave them a key To come and go as they pleased ,never ever nagged
I was just here for them ,an ear to listen ,never judge or demand
Had a evening meal ready every day,if they didn’t want it ,I froze it for another day .
my thoughts were ,that it’s hard enough being a teenager ,I didn’t want to add to their stress .
I can honestly say they are a dream ,
We all have a good laugh together,still go on holiday together.
Eldest is a police officer,younger 2 at uni studying science and maths .
Still all at home ,we get on fine .
They are 20 ,21 ,22.

If DS is an adult and doesn't need to be parented/monitored then I would apply it to DH aswel and take it to the extreme. Yes you have to house him and provide nourishment. So he gets to live in your home and he gets access to staple food items. He doesn't get to eat food you have cooked. He doesn't get to eat snacks or treats. WiFi is limited to homework needs, unless he pays for extra usage. If he's not already doing so, he does his own laundry, he gets no help with anything extra. In other words, if he wants to be an adult, let him be an adult.

I agree with staypositive about treating kids with respect etc - although my kids have never been sweary and disrespectful so not sure how I'd deal with that

PlanDeRaccordement
I am sure you are right about school work and grades. I haven't been following.
My ponit is more, if the school sets it, then he is accountable to school for it. You can create a suitable atmosphere - room, desk, quiet, food etc, but in the end teens have to work because they want to, you can't force them.

If he wants to behave like an adult.

Then let him. First he pays towards his kee. Does he have pocket money? If so. Now keep it. Explain it's £15 a week to live there. £5 a week for internet etc.

Take his stuff away. If he sees you as hitler. Then say to him if he wants that. Then he can go and buy one. Out of his own money. If he wants to play it. Then he pays for it.

Turn the wifi off. If he wants to play games etc. The. He has to do certain things for the password to be given. Change it daily. Even hourly.

The biggest one of all

Stick to your guns. Whatever you say. Keep saying it. If he wants his phone. He has to earn it. Regardless of whether he kicks off or not

Trust me. A few weeks of this and he will get it. I promise you.

Your DH sounds a bit weak willed and useless/lazy parent

I have a 15 and 17yr old (boys)

We don’t do threats and punishments, really. We let them get on with things.

For DS1 that meant not getting the gcse grades he could have had, but he feels very lucky that he got good enough grades for his as level subjects, and he is now working harder.

He is on his PC a lot. But his grades are good, and he seems to do the work that’s required

The 15ur old I also leave it to him. He gets detentions for not doing homework sometimes, that’s his outlook. He can get good grades if he wants to. I am here to support him if he wants support. But again, it’s up to him.

In your case it depends a bit on your DS grades, are they really bad? Acceptable?

What does he want to do after school?

I think treating teens like (almost) grown ups works best. That means no random rules about screen time, not accepting being talked to like dirt. That also means trying to resolve disagreements through discussion rather than punishments. And if DS breaks his phone he has to earn the money to get it fixed (no jobs right now but he earns a bit from me by doing lawn etc)

I have been called “soft” on MN but this is the approach that works for us.

Hope you figure something out for you and your boy (and your undermining DH)

and just as a follow on from my post.

Confrontation with teens is rarely helpful or effective. In fact if you are at the 'I'm taking your phone away' stage, you have lost already.

I have drawn some lines in the sand. I will not do this, and will not allow it in the house, you have to wait until you leave if you want to do that. But they are very, very few (mostly eg drug based) or they tend to be things which directly effect the rest of the family, so we have talked about being quiet between 12 am and 7 am as he tends to stay up half the night in the holidays.
He understands that those are reasonable requests.

The rest we talk about. Sometimes I ask him what he thinks a reasonable request would be. From these discussions I usually find he is much more willing to do things than I realise, as long as they are on his terms. eg he will happily do the washing, but in the afternoon /evening. Which is fine. He hates cleaning, but will happily do other stuff, eg mow the lawn.
So we negotiate, I treat his opinion and views with respect, and he treats me and the household with respect.

Sorry if I'm being dense but what school work? He has finished school surely if he is doing a levels next year. Presumably can't get a job and can't go out at the moment.
I'd let him be for now.
Have a non fraught chat with dh about what you are going to do in September

Your ds is trying to keep his foot in both camps 'you cant tell me what to do but its the law that you look after me'. Its childish bollocks, but you have both backed yourself into a corner. Your dh is completely useless. I would take a different approach.
Go and speak to your ds when you are calmer. Tell him the truth - you can not go on like this. Tell him how much it hurts you. You are his mum - you love him but he treats you like something he has stepped in. Tell him you want to work on a way forward and you will listen to his side. Have a list of non-negotiable but be prepared to concede somethings too.
For example;
I will stop trying to manage your xbox use, you decide how long to spend on it BUT, you are off the Xbox by 9pm. There are no arguments and you do not swear at me. Ever.

I won't nag you about school work - you know you need to be prepared for your Alevels. You need to decided on a minimum amount of time to spend on your studies and do it.

You are almost an adult. Adults work for the things they want. You can choose from this list of chores 3 things that you will do - 2 things are something you do every day, one thing is something you do every week (stack the dishwasher after dinner, bring your dirty laundry out of your room - daily tasks. Mow the lawn - weekly task). If you do these things without argument, I will pay for your mobile phone contract. If you decline this offer, I will cancel it and you will need to get a job.

Set your stall out. Stay calm and use assertive language. Do not shout. If he complains, remind him that you are not his slave and you will not be dictated to, but you are not prepared to keep arguing with him. Once you have sorted it, tell your dh that this is the way things will be. He needs to get behind the programme or piss off.

Honestly I'd get rid of your h. That's more than half your problem solved.

I don't see how you can discipline a 16 year old

Steppewolf, I do the same. If they are cross about switching pc off at 10 or 11 (because it’s noisy and I want to sleep, also we have neighbours and thin walls), if I ask “what would you think is a reasonable time to be quiet?” I get a much better response.

By asking them what they think would be fair, they don’t feel you are being a dictator.

You aren’t failing your ds. Your dh is, by being a spineless idiot. If the parenting days are over, I suggest you stop doing anything for both of them, absolutely fuck all. I’m horrified at your dh, wtf is he thinking? Your ds doesn’t sound mature enough to not be parented.

School has stipulated they start studying for Alevel and is setting the odd bit to keep them ticking over. I think he should be following their requests.

Dh and I discussed last night ds making his own lunch. Came back from walk and ds had thankfully done that. Only thing was complete mess was left in kitchen with cheese and mayo out, crockery everywhere. I said you’ll need to clear up and he refused. I then said well you can keep the dirty plates up in your room as I won’t be doing it and need the space to make my lunch. Dh then called across don’t be so ridiculous. I said well what do you suggest and he shouted that he was working and shouldn’t be disturbed. I did point out that interrupting to undermine me seemed to be ok as an interruption. Ds has just come down sniggering saying how ridiculous I am plonking his used plate on top of the mess he made and walked off.

I’m guessing somewhere in all that I’ve handled it wrong but don’t know how.

Your husband is totally wrong!

Take away WiFi and or phone.

I have two 18 year olds. I have not policed homework since GCSE times (16) . This is harsh - but I'd rather they learn how to study and organise their time and pay the price if they don't get it right at A level stage. Better than than spend a load of money on Uni and find out there! I've told them this. If they want to play on their Xbox they do, but they suffer the consequences. I don't want a constant argument about what they do and when, if they don't make the grade tough, if they do then they've worked it out!