To ask how you are supposed to discipline 16 year olds

[B1gL1ttleStar]

I really am at a loss.

Ds is rude, disrespectful and lazy. Will be doing ALevels next year and I foresee much laziness as regards school work and X Box time.

Dh helpfully said in front of him that it’s time to leave him to it and the parenting days are over. Ds keeps firing that at me now.

The polite suggestion that he do the small amount of homework he has been set today was met with rudeness, foul language, disrespect and the fact that my parenting days are apparently over.

I really am at a loss as to what to do. Dh doesn’t like the stress taking phone away as a punishment brings and says he’s an adult and it’s an infringement of his rights. He also says we should have nothing to do with school work or trying to get him off his xbox now. All in front of him. The consequences of him having no future is a big enough punishment apparently.

Seems to me that giving ds all day Xbox time and no consequences for not carrying out his responsibilities is ridiculous. Surely us working full time, cooking, cleaning and washing for him whilst he sits on his backside is educating him that you can put in zilch and get back everything.Surely at 16 you’re still learning and need guidance/ immediate consequences.Why should we fund him to do very little?

I have taken away phone and Xbox as punishments( when he swears at me ) which causes WW3. I have suggested during lock down he has 3/4 hours out of 16 hours away from screens and is off them by 10pm.Both of them say I’m a dictator.Apparently I’m a Hitler and doing it all wrong as regards discipline so with that in mind I’d like some proper guidance.

If you have a 16 to 18 year old in full time education what are your expectations and consequences re laziness and rudeness/ disrespect?

What are your expectations and consequences during lockdown/ holidays?

I’m confused and just don’t know what to do.

Does it feel like lots of different advice on this thread and you don't know which one will work best?

Because different approaches work better for different people. Crucially, both parents have to present a united front.

But I do think there's a lot of good advice on this thread. It centres round adjusting to a new stage of parenting for your older teen: giving more responsibility, suggesting rather than directing, but having consequences for rudeness and other non-negotiables.

@MogeatDog
My teen has a part time job, he also gets / got bursary / EMA from college, so rent wasn’t an empty threat in my case. Even if your teen doesn’t work you could always deduct from whatever pocket money or allowance you give them.
OP, when was the last time you spent quality time with your son? Watched a movie, played a game, had a chat? I always find mine needs that connection with me, more than he needs “discipline”, and when our relationship is in a good place he’s way more inclined to pitch in around the house. So I’d maybe focus on that first and foremost.

Sounds like you have a DH problem not a DS problem. I don't know what to suggest, my oldest is only 13. But please don't give up on him. My mum thought I was too old to be parented at 16 and I dropped out of A levels, dropped out of college, moved out at 16, spent all my time getting stoned and looking back I am hugely resentful I wasn't offered any support or encouragement to succeed and get to uni. Adults brains don't mature until age 25. He won't make the right decisions about his future at 16. You need to give him an incentive somehow because he won't see the point on his own. I work with teenagers now and a lot of them are bright and able and want to pack in college because the idea of living with their mates and having a full time (minimum) wage is hugely appealing to them. These are often teenagers who get on well with their parents and some of them are 17 and have their own cars and still dropping out of everything is still appealing because the full time minimum wage salary seems big to them. Can you try and connect with him by sympathising about him not liking his school work and work out what he could do post 16 he would enjoy together? Uni or apprenticeship? Offer him financial incentive?

Why are you doing his washing and cleaning? He is 16 years old, and can do that himself.
At that age I did not clean my 3 DSs their rooms, or do their washing or ironing.
Re phone and money. Does your DS have a job? Do you give him an allowance? What does he pay for and what are you expected to pay for him. These can all be negotiating tactics.
When it comes to chores around the house, I found it best to allow them to do the ones they prefer to do, rather than me decide what they do.

When you're feeling more calm, I'd try to sit down with your son and have a conversation. Say that you feel like you both have come to a bad place where you nag him to do things and he's disrespectful in return. Ask him what he thinks is reasonable. Tell him that things like gaming time are negotiable but kindness and respect is not. Listen to what he says. (It's possible he has an addiction; it's also possible that he's just 16.)

When you and your husband are alone, tell him in no uncertain terms that he is not to undermine you again in front of your son. You are free to disagree about parenting but not in front of him. Stick with that--he doesn't get to model disrespect.

It sounds like your husband does not respect you, and therefore your DS does not either.

Kids don’t do as they are told. They do as they see.

Your DH ignores you. So does your DS

You cannot fix this as a stand-alone issue. Why do you accept lack of respect from DH but not DS?

It's a partnership at that age, mine had set household chores, did own washing and helped with cooking in return for an allowance. School work as their responsibility, as was their choice of bedtime

Hit him where it hurts.

If he likes to look nice, quit doing his laundry.
If he likes to FaceTime his gf, turn off the WiFi.
If he likes to watch Top Gear or sodding Emmerdale, or play music on a turntable switch off the plug sockets (via the mains isolator fuse box) to upstairs so he can’t use his tv etc.
If he likes long hot showers, make sure you use all the hot water first.
Ditto remove all shower gel, soap, shampoo, toothpaste then remind him that they are your toiletries and if he wants to be rude and disrespectful you are twice as old and hence twice as good at being a twat.
Cook his least favourite foods, stop buying his favourites. So no more yoghurts or chocolates or crisps, or whatever his go to snack of choice is.

You need to remind him that you’re the adult, you still pay all the bills and if he can not respect you, he will find himself going without

Stop topping his phone up, or paying his bill, stop letting him use your internet, your toiletries, your washing machine. If he wants to act like a big man, he can start by buying his own stuff, taking his own pants to the laundromat, providing his own treats etc.
I’d start by cooking him something really band for his dinner, tomat on toast or some such. Then order yourself a takeaway, obviously his favourite.

Another one saying you have a Dh problem as well as a Ds problem.

I completely agree that your Dh has no respect for you. I mean how dare you love your son so much that you are willing to challenge him to do his work because you want the best for him?

Where does your Dh see this going? If he can't even be arsed with the small amount of work that sixth form have set over the summer (like a lot of them do) how is he going to succeed with 3 Alevels or Btecs? Technically he would have been in school full time if it wasn't for covid. He would have been revising and working. Now he is sat on his arse.

Maybe you can ask your Dh that? Where will this end up? In sixth form, if you fail the first year, then you cannot resit. It doesn't work that way. Why would they give a place to someone who has just wasted it? Yes they get funded for 3 years but that doesn't mean a resit at the same college with the same subjects. Maybe you should tell your Dh that.

My friend's son is lazy, could have done really well at GCSEs but couldn't be arsed, the xbox was his best friend. He then failed his first year of sixth form. Had to start at another sixth form with different subjects. Again, no effort, didn't bother going and was asked to leave. He was, until covid shelf stacking on a zero hours contract and has been for years. He is early 20s. He cannot earn enough to leave home, he isn't working enough hours to earn even £12k. About half that. He lacks ambition and seems stuck. My friend is absolutely heartbroke over it. This could be your son.

And yes I have teen sons, one in year 12 and one in year 9. They alternate turns unpacking the dishwasher every morning, they have made lunch for everyone and will be making dinner this week. They strip their beds, launder them, remake them. Keep their rooms tidy, spend time with us as a family, watching TV shows, board games etc. They are lovely children. But I have a great Dh who would never allow the boys to talk to me with anything other than respect.

Could you reconnect with your son with something on Netflix?

I have a 16, almost 17 year old who occasionally goes on like this, it is draining isn't it.

You can't really discipline them as they're almost an adult, and they like to see themselves that way.

Stop doing meals for him apart from tea time. Give him some responsibility, so stop doing his washing, don't tidy his room, don't chase him to shower etc. Cut off his pocket money until he does some housework.

As for the Xbox, unplug the WiFi and tell him he can have it back after x amount of time if he does a level work.

Do you have Virgin media internet? If you download the app, you can block WiFi to certain devices for a certain amount of time if you'd rather stay on the internet.

Does he have a phone contract or a PAYG phone? Tell him you won't be paying for PAYG until he does chores, or stop the contract if you're able to.

You need to come down hard on him so that he can understand the consequences of his actions.

If you can't get your DH to side
With you, then this is how you need to deal with things.

Although the disrespect sounds like it's more than just being lazy with his school work and I agree your DH has made it harder to reason with DS, I'd give him a break over school work at the minute.

His school has been closed and he likely won't go back with his friends; his exams have been cancelled and there is no onus on students to do any more work towards their courses. (Even if there was, it'd be the Easter holiday!) And we're all using 'screens' of different varieties for additional purposes at the minute, whether practical or social.

I'm going to give a different point of view.

I suspect you have shut your DH out of parenting decisions for some time and are now reaping the consequences.

The situation both with him and your son sounds dysfunctional.

I agree with the advice that you need to discipline with a light touch at this stage. It is more important to encourage self-reliance and responsibility.

What I read in your posts is that you've carried on parenting your son as if he is a much younger child. I suspect that your DH has spotted this, and probably told you so, but you've ignored and sidelined him, so now he's not supporting you. In consequence of both those things your son is misbehaving.

Your reaction concerning the kitchen - in and of itself - is entirely reasonable. It's no adult's job to clean up after a 16-year old. But it has 'massive backstory' written all over it, as otherwise, why it become clearly just the latest of many battles of the wills?

And if you engage in a battle of the wills with your son, it suggests he's your equal, and so you lose authority in his eyes.

I'm not trying to put the boot in, and I accept that it really may be just a case of arsehole syndrome on the part of your husband and son, but in situations like this, it's very easy to ignore your own blind spots when seeking advice online.

If your son thinks your parenting time is over tell him to pack his bags and find his own way in the world and show your husband the door too! Problem solved

I would leave them both to it, just look after yourself from now on. Let them do their own washing and cooking, don't mention the X Box, that sounds like a lost cause, don't give them any reason to gang up on you, treat them with complete indifference. Make time for yourself, even if it's just reading a book or listening to music in another room.

Sostenueto,

Unless they decline to leave.

I have a 16 year old DS too.

I don't mind the xbox/playstation being used more than normal at the moment as its his contact with his mates and a bit of normality.

HOWEVER

This is only once school work is up to date and he's helped out around the house. I've restricted WiFi time via the router and it goes off at 10pm.

I second malloo - if they want the benefits of being an adult they have to behave like one otherwise there are consequences.

And we thought the toddler years were tough!!!!

PS your DH needs consequences too I'd say!

Who would flippantly boot their 16year old kid out before trying to engage - you need to change gear - your parenting is all wrong - I needed to change my approach - it made all he difference, your teenager wants to be loved but he is very confused at the moment - be the steady ship

I would definitely second the advice to try to build a connection with your son. Constant conflict and threats are going to get you nowhere. You have to get your DH on board and you have to accept that the situation won’t be perfect. Nobody’s is. And realise that if it’s awful now, it won’t be like that forever.

I would tell your DH that if he doesn’t back you up then he can do whatever you asked of DS

DH could clean the kitchen do the washing pay for the bus’s fare. Make him responsible.

He's old enough now to be responsible for getting his school work done.

The rest is down to what you can put up with. If it were me walking into a kitchen that was a mess and being told I was unreasonable to expect it be cleaned up, things would change drastically. I am quite capable of working around mess. I'd make my lunch and leave the existing mess. I'd only be cooking for myself until someone got off their arse and cleaned the mess. The longest I've had someone hold out was two or three weeks. I literally did nothing and they finally realised they also had to contribute to keeping things clean and tidy.

Your dh is 80% of the problem here. My eldest was a bit of an asshat at that age. The only thing that bothered her was removing her phone so that's what i did. Infringement of his rights my arse.

Aggression and anger will be met with aggression and anger. It's really not ok for him to be rude and dismissive of you but if you are constantly shouting and nagging him I can see how it would be easy to get into that negative cycle.

I say pick your battles. With regards to home work/school work - your son knows what he needs to do. No amount of nagging is going to change that. Now it's time for natural consequences. If he doesn't do the work he fails. You've got to remember also that this is a difficult time for everyone with a change in how we are all coping with being locked in at home. I leave my 10 year old to it, I'm sure your 16 year old knows exactly what is required of him.

About xbox and screen time - do parents really say only weekends and shut of at 10pm for 16 year olds? What else do you expect him to do? He can't exactly go anywhere! It's how they socialise today as well as amuse themselves. My 10 year old has her phone until 11pm. It's not exactly like they have to be up for anything!

Have you tried bringing some fun into the house rather than fighting all the time? Get the board games out and have, even just 30mins together after dinner time, a bit of family fun. Otherwise you are all going to have such a miserable time.

My suggestions would be to address the no more parenting with the list of lodger responsibilities. He does his own, washing, cooking and cleans up after himself to your expectations, keeps his room clean, cleans the bath after he uses it etc, you pay the bills and he has to pay his way. If he wants any money it has to be earned with tasks you decide on, have a set list for him to do. The money goes in to an account he can access but there is nothing extra to be given unless it's birthday/Christmas etc. We've started a softer version of this with our dc. It started out as an incentive to earn spending money for a holiday but it did inspire 16 year old to start applying for part time jobs. It's not great at the moment but it's planted the seed and we'll keep pushing on with it. For exams, we offered a set reward for results , so no results no money. He did a lot better than dh expected so it was a painful but happy price to pay. Next year's reward was going to be a family holiday this year (his request). Not sure if that's happening but you get the gist of it. Unfortunately till your dh starts working seriously with you this is unlikely to change.

If he considers himself an adult tell him he needs to get a job to pay his way. This is what adults have to do or they get nothing.