To be so angry at the Chinese government

[HildegardeCrowe]

Because they didn’t shut the wet markets down permanently after SARS so another pandemic was inevitable. The rest of the world is now putting pressure on China to end it’s wildlife trade but this won’t be easy. Most of the world is in lockdown because of this trade and it’s so depressing to think history will repeat itself if China doesn’t get its act together.

The more I learn about how the Chinese abuse wild animals the angrier I get - the latest thing I read about is how they make the lives of bears a misery by extracting their bile.

Surely this is a PR disaster for China?

Agree with Bovary
one of my colleagues was in Wuhan at the end of November last year at the end of her travels and before she was allowed to fly home airport officials were quizzing all foreign tourists about where they'd been and they were also taking their temperatures. If they had a temp they weren't allowed to fly. She was then really unwell with CV type symptoms about two weeks after she got home. Several other colleagues were then ill with the same type of illness.

Was it CV? who knows but she's convinced in hindsight that China knew something wasn't right. And that was in November

Didn't the UK start BSE and vCJD by feeding ground up cows to cows?

And then we decided it was an issue even with that politician feeding a burger to his little girl.

I don't think there's much point being angry with China tbh. I think many countries would have done the same.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Are you denying that doctors were being silenced by December for speaking about human transmission?

There is no report listed from Taiwan on 31st December on the WHO webpage

According to the FT linked earlier, Taiwan alerted them on the 31st and they confirmed receipt.

I meant that we said it wasn't a problem for ages

I also remember push back on the idea that vCJD and BSE were linked..

@PlanDeRaccordement

Your wilful ignorance is tiresome.

The first case of someone in China suffering from Covid-19, the disease caused by the novel coronavirus, can be traced back to November 17, according to government data seen by the South China Morning Post

Didn't the UK start BSE and vCJD by feeding ground up cows to cows? And then we decided it was an issue even with that politician feeding a burger to his little girl. I don't think there's much point being angry with China tbh. I think many countries would have done the same

Except that apparently British beef industry have made changes and stricter protocols after that.

What did China do after SARS?

Nothing.

Do keep up.

Bovary X
Yes it did not happen in December and the “silencing” you are referring to was merely an NDA that doesn’t allow them to post sensitive info on social media. It’s not “silencing” as in you can’t talk about it through official channels. You are using hyperbole because of you China bashing agenda.

@MangoFeverDream
Again, where am I saying it was it was not a big deal. 800 people died! I really don’t understand where you’re getting that from. I happen to think 800 people is a very big deal (but I’m not the Chinese government.)

What I’m saying is the government may have been prepared for an outbreak that killed 800 people (which would be 800 too many) but they weren’t prepared for an outbreak that killed hundreds of thousands.

That’s not saying SARS was irrelevant, that’s saying that China thought they would be dealing with a “smaller” outbreak. They should have listened to the scientists and doctors on the ground and known this was going to be worse. They didn’t, and they should be held to account for that.

I honestly can’t see where you think I’m saying 800 is irreverent or SARS was no big deal. It was. I am criticising the government’a response

The Chinese need to take responsibility for this, the blame lies squarely at their door for allowing disgusting wet markets to operate unchecked. There is nothing in PC about it. It is disgusting for wild animals to be traded in this way, proven now by a global pandemic ravaging lives and economic stability of the globe.

Isn’t the problem that these wet/wild markets are largely underground so difficult to permanently shut down? It’s like pledging to permanently shut down drug dealing - due to the underground nature some will slip through the net, others will constantly create new markets etc

There was no national ban on the wildlife trade until now. They didn’t even try.

Also if poor Chinese citizen can’t afford to buy anything else because these markets are dirt cheap, do you expect them to alternatively starve

As another poster pointed out, rich Chinese consume wild, exotic meat. Poor people eat pork and chicken.

People in every country treat animals and wild animals like shit, hunting as a “sport” or dog fighting aren’t particularly kind to kind to the animals involved either?

Yeah, I’m against that too. Your point is?

Bovary,
Yes, as expected a statement with no source. And I’m the ignorant one. How do I know you’re not just making this up or getting it from a conspiracy theory webpage?

Do keep up

I remember it all, we did not fess up and behave well, we tried to downplay and cover it up etc

If other countries hadn't banned import of our meat etc I doubt our reaction would have been as strong.

It was a shitshow. Loads of countries are not straightforward about, well, anything really!

Yes it did not happen in December and the “silencing” you are referring to was merely an NDA PlanDeRaccordement

Just so everyone reading this sees this with clarity. Dr. Li Wenliang was forced to confess to illegal behaviour for speaking online about human transmission of Covid in December. He subsequently died of it. This poster is justifying his treatment. Quite extraordinary. But revelatory.

The UK made equally big mistakes, especially wit regards to testing. For too long they only tested people who had returned from 'infected areas' or who had had 'direct contact with a confirmed case'. They didn't accept soon enough that the UK had itself become an infected country.

On March 6th, we called NHS 111 about our DD2 (8), who had a high temperature, chest pain, headaches and was achy all over. We were simply asked whether we had been overseas recently. We were told to take her into A&E; thankfully the waiting room was empty (though not by design), but the staff had no PPE.

DD2 was diagnosed of an 'upper respiratory infection', and she was ill for 4 days. 3 days after our visit to A&E, I developed COVID-19 symptoms myself and I was very unwell with it. (I wasn't taken into hospital thankfully.)

My DD and I were never tested but the GP surgery are no longer in any doubt that I did have COVID-19 and I could only have caught it from her, as I hadn't been out, having previously had a normal spring virus and then I'd stayed in with DD2.

There will have been many cases like ours, so it's no wonder it got out of control.

Yes on mad cow, it took five years before any action was taken by the U.K. government.

That’s not saying SARS was irrelevant, that’s saying that China thought they would be dealing with a “smaller” outbreak

My point is that SARS was a regional outbreak. China’s problem quickly became a regional problem and so even if it was a ‘SARS’ type outbreak that should have prompted them to act quickly to avoid that scenario again. As it was, it became even worse, staggeringly so.

It's from the South China Morning post @PlanDeRaccordement. But continue with your fanatical denial of external reality.

I’m sure the Chinese who are separated from their children to work in a factory appalling conditions, while their environment is decimated so that we can have iPhones are just as, if not more, angry at us.

Surely finger pointing must be included as an Olympic sport.

Wet markets are a huge part of life in many parts of Asia. How do you think people would have managed without them?

I’m just wondering what relentlessly criticising one government for their mistakes, rather than looking at the very obvious errors of your own really achieves?

Apart from as a venting mechanism, which is really what this is.

Here's another article citing the virus was noted in November

www.livescience.com/first-case-coronavirus-found.html

I remember it all, we did not fess up and behave well, we tried to downplay and cover it up etc

You can ‘gotcha’ me if this scenario happens a second time, as it did in China.

The UK made equally big mistakes

Yes, the UK did make big mistakes. But thankfully, their mistakes are limited to the British people (and I do mean this).

Chinese mistakes have screwed the entire globe.

Another source for November @PlanDeRaccordement

www.ccn.com/coronavirus-patient-zero-may-have-started-pandemic-in-november-or-earlier/

Bovary
Yes violating an NDA between yourself and your employer is in fact illegal. What he did was illegal, so of course he had no alternative but to confess. I don’t know what you mean by “justifying treatment” you act like he was tortured into a false confession and then imprisoned. Nothing happened to him. He kept caring for his patients until he sickened and unfortunately died of Covid.

NDAs are not some communist invention only found in China. They are worldwide.