To be so angry at the Chinese government

[HildegardeCrowe]

Because they didn’t shut the wet markets down permanently after SARS so another pandemic was inevitable. The rest of the world is now putting pressure on China to end it’s wildlife trade but this won’t be easy. Most of the world is in lockdown because of this trade and it’s so depressing to think history will repeat itself if China doesn’t get its act together.

The more I learn about how the Chinese abuse wild animals the angrier I get - the latest thing I read about is how they make the lives of bears a misery by extracting their bile.

Surely this is a PR disaster for China?

I haven’t seen hygiene be listed as a factor in say MERS for example @Olivermumsarmy ?

Have you got any links?

In a market setting Hygiene of meat is a factor more for food bourne illnesses which are bacterial. Things like listeria, salmonella, E. coli.

When it comes to viruses transmitting from an animal host to a human host, it can happen with any amount of contact and in any environment with any animal, wild or domesticated. Hygiene there is more in relation to avoiding all contact with the live animal, it’s living area, or it’s wastes.

So even if you have a very clean market, if there are any live animals present there is risk. Livestock farmers, herders, even pet owners are all at risk.

Hospital infections have been a problem for decades and very little has been done. Oh I don't know about that. Cleaners have been cut and overworked, like everyone else.

Really we are just bloody lucky that a disease hasn’t been this easily spread recently.
Just as example was the Hendra virus in Australia (2000’s) needed a intermediate host (horses) to have human spread but wasn’t from person to person.
If it didn’t need that step and was as contagious as covid-19 it would of been horrific.
If we stopped destroying habitats their would be less interaction with host animals (like bats) we would lower the risk.
While at we are it we need to limit antibiotic and fungicide use in our food chain (ok we actually needed to limit it in the 1960’s when resistance was first noticed and instead of dealing with it, they just made new types of antibiotics) because resistance is growing in both bacteria and more frighteningly in fungi. (Multi drug resistant Aspergillus fumigatus and Candida auris)

Oh I don't know about that. Cleaners have been cut and overworked, like everyone else.

What do you mean?

Hygiene isn't just about cleaning.
It's about practices and protective equipment too. It affects all workers, starting at doctors.

The main reasons why we get pandemics these days are overcrowding and travel.

We know enough to catch diseases before they go pandemic. We did know a lot about this early on. It spread like wildfire in large part because it got to large cities and because of the huge numbers of people travelling.
This is not going to change any time soon.
But exposure to new variants will always happen. Be it via domestic or wild animals or meat.

I’ve just read that 6 more coronaviruses have been discovered in bats in Myanmar (although they may not necessarily transfer to humans).

It seems likely that this will happen again.

Bats have also been known to pass rabies to humans, so it shouldn't have been a surprise that they could do the same with the coronavirus.

About bats and why they carry so many viruses.

healthcareinamerica.us/what-makes-bats-the-perfect-hosts-for-so-many-viruses-3274c019bb4d

According to Worldometer Ireland has 90 deaths per million population. China has 2 per million population.

LadyEloise do you believe the numbers of deaths given out by the Chinese government?

I meant something has been done - the situation has been made worse. At least austerity seemed to be being quietly ditched anyway, before this started, but ye gods there is so much to fix.

I said something very similar a few months back before caronavirus got to UK and i got called a racist.

I absolutely agree with everything you are saying

Every time you want to blame China for the UK lockdown, look at South Korea and the competent way they've dealt with this. Look at New Zealand.

The UK isn't locked down because of China. It's locked down because of the raging hubris of our government.

There was no contact tracing. There was no early social distancing. There were no measures at the border.

The UK doesn't have any tests. You need to be angry about that. Really angry. You aren't getting out of lockdown without them, so focus your energies there.

There's still no quarantine on the border. Be angry about that.

Most of the virus in the UK came from Europe, not China.

What RacheyCat said.

You mean it came from China via Europe

Maybe we should look into vaccinating bats the way we vaccinate cows.

But while China was in quarantine, Europe was allowing international games...

Maybe we should look into vaccinating bats the way we vaccinate cows.

How do you propose that?

The word 'trade' here is a bit of a clue. ie this is not an issue internal to China but a global, multi billion dollar industry. Who do you think is the other biggest partner in this industry? The good ol US of A exercising democratic purchasing choice. The few institutions and charities that try and combat the illegal trade in wild animals have been warning of this for years; they are also grotesquely underfunded. Will be interesting to see how high up the list of priorities the issue receives when this is over.

Google suggests wildlife absolutely can be vaccinated. I never said it would be easy ir happen straight away but they can do it.

@Geepipe
For future reference, post the link, not the screenshot, for inspection.

There's wildlife and there's wildlife.

There are many species of bats all over the world, some of them with hundreds of thousands of individuals. Only in China there are about 100 species, with different niches and diets, from fruit to insects.
They harbour a number of viruses that can be a threat to humans.
They harbour these viruses because their immune systems are essentially tolerant of the viruses, as per the article I linked.
If you have any bright ideas on how to vaccinate all the different species against all those viruses, you may end up getting a Nobel prize.

My point is isnt it a start to vaccinate on the viruses they have now. Surely there is people whos job it is to study viruses in bats? If so its 2020. Scientific research and experiments are happening all the time why does it seem so far fetched to actually vaccinate bat colonies every time they find a new virus?

Im not ssying it will ever happen im just putting a thought out there. If it did one day happen it could save a lot of lives.

Did you even read my post?

It's hard enough getting vaccines for many deadly diseases for people, cattle and immediate and much easier wildlife.

Your suggestion is way crazier than you can imagine.