To be so angry at the Chinese government

[HildegardeCrowe]

Because they didn’t shut the wet markets down permanently after SARS so another pandemic was inevitable. The rest of the world is now putting pressure on China to end it’s wildlife trade but this won’t be easy. Most of the world is in lockdown because of this trade and it’s so depressing to think history will repeat itself if China doesn’t get its act together.

The more I learn about how the Chinese abuse wild animals the angrier I get - the latest thing I read about is how they make the lives of bears a misery by extracting their bile.

Surely this is a PR disaster for China?

Mango,

Well yes. A lower than average monthly report of deaths is possible and further corroborates that you could have fewer people dying generally AND add in thousands from Covid, but still remain low compared to prior years. Unless you are suggesting Michigan is hiding their Covid deaths!

Keep in mind this accusation says that the China reported deaths of 3349 were really 133,960, or 40x more. If only 42,000 bodies were processed by all the crematoriums in the area, where are the other 91,960 dead? Plus the usual 40 odd thousand you’d expect amongst a population of 60m or so to die anyway?

And as you know, if a fluctuation in the monthly death rate can vary by 3,000+ as it did in Michigan (a population of 10m), then it can easily vary that much off the average with a population of 60m.

China is a mess, taking the worse parts of communism and capitalism and thrown into half the planets population. Something horrific like this, along with the suppression of muslims in camps there was bound to happen soon. Id be interested to know about N Korea in all this.

when the hell did Britain kill nearly the entire population of Ireland?
I agree it’s not relevant, just answering your question.

Cromwell’s invasion of Ireland 1649-1650.

I was hoping the repression would actually work for good for once and keep the virus away, but with so many Chinese constantly in and out it was inevitably. It really could be up in the hundreds of thousands there.

news.yahoo.com/north-korea-calls-stricter-anti-020455003.html

Nowhere near 'nearly the entire population'. that was also part of a huge civil war.

“have linked to the WaPo article many times. If you think it’s pro-Trump (laughable) and somehow biased there’s nothing I can do.“

One thing that Trump and the Democrats (both left and right) both are is pro-USA. The same is true of the US media. The conspiracy theory that Covid originated as a bio weapon in Wuhan came from the US media and politicians like senator Cotton. It’s interesting because the US always has a scapegoat/enemy. It was the Russians before the Chinese.
I’m not saying everything they report is false or fake news, just that I take their reports with a grain of salt because 9 out of 10 times any reporting on China by US media will be negative.

“Nowhere near 'nearly the entire population'. that was also part of a huge civil war.”

Well, it was estimated that 600,000 out of 1.5million were killed by Cromwell’s Army. Cromwell then also sold another 400,000 or so into slavery to fund his government. After the war, the Irish population was at only 500,000 or one third of what it had been and concentrated in these reservations in the western part of the island. Their seized lands were given in lieu of pay to his army officers and sold to other British colonists to also fund his government. It wasn’t during the Civil War, the invasion of Ireland came after Cromwell had won the Civil War and beheaded Charles I in Jan 1649.

But I agree a war is not comparable to a pandemic. One is an act of man, the other an act of nature.

no actually its estimated that 600,000 died altogether as a result of disease and war casualties of both sides. And that's the highest estimate, that still only accounts for 40%.

Im not talking about the English civil war

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_slaves_myth

Stop reading rubbish.

yes, wiki has a lot of rubbish. You know anyone can write anything they want on wiki.

Cromwell’s invasion was not part of ANY civil war.

But I agree a war is not comparable to a pandemic. One is an act of man, the other an act of nature

This pandemic is man made.

If people didn’t eat animals that they shouldn’t eat then the world would have not gone into lock down.

OliversMummy
“This pandemic is man made.

If people didn’t eat animals that they shouldn’t eat...”

Ah, animals we should not eat. Based on which cultures beliefs? Because if you’re a Muslim or Jewish, then no one should eat pigs. So by eating pork, we created swine flu?
If you’re a Hindu, then no one should eat cows. So did the British make BSE by eating cows?
And how about Avian flu? Caused by eating poultry was it?

What about diseases that we get from animals we don’t eat? Like MERS or Hanta Virus or bubonic plague or rabies? What is your explanation for those diseases?

@CorianderLord

It's just some break the law and sell wild animals

Er, no, the wet markets were allowed to sell wild animals. China banned the sale of wild animals on 24 Feb 2020.

@UtterlyPerfectCartoonGiraffe

There are a couple of plausible routes of transmission from the information we’ve been given at least. From bats via wild animals to the wet market. Critics of this theory have said that bats don’t live anywhere near this city, therefore impossible. However, nobody’s catching these wild animals in the city - the wild animals being caught for trade will have come from the countryside, and could well have been exposed to bat viruses.

The news reports showed cages of bats sitting on cages of other animals. Fluids, waste etc would have simply dripped from the bats to the animals in the cage below (perhaps pangolins) and then picked up by a human.

Sharona That’s almost as if they read the “Idiots Guide to Starting a Pandemic”.

As well as new laws and enforcement around markets and illegal trade, it seems like there also needs to be a massive education program on staying the heck away from bats.

PlanDeRaccordemen

I was referring to animals that hadn’t been reared and kept under guidelines and slaughtered in a “humane” and hygienic way.

Not catching some random bats or picking up someone’s pet to be hung and skinned alive on a street corner and chopped up in the street.

It is both cruel to the animal and playing Russian roulette with peoples lives as they are serving shit and I mean that in its literal sense to people that are consuming this food.

@Wolfgirrl it’s about the hypocrisy. Almost no one has given a shit about the people suffering and dying because of the Chinese regime but the second a few westerners die of virus which could have easily arisen in innocent circumstances China is being vilified. Think about the message that sends. Commit genocide? That’s fine, just keep sending the cheap consumables our way. Maybe accidentally cause a virus through the consumption of meat we find strange causing disruption in our economies, evil bastards, you must pay!

OP, and a lot of posters on this thread have their priorities all wrong.

This isn’t about meat that is strange.

It is about meat that comes from animals they shouldn’t be eating because of their own countries laws.
The fact they can’t track where that animal has been and the unhygienic and horrifically cruel practices that they use to kill and cut up the meat.

This pandemic is man made.

A Coronavirus can come from anywhere.

A farming environment could also harbour one. It could just as easily come from animals westerners consider acceptable for consumption.

What makes this one so devastating are the rates of transmission/morbidity.

That’s pure bad luck. Not human design.

I wish people would stop repeating information they’ve picked up from Twitter/Reddit/Facebook etc. as literal fact. Unless you’ve verified it from a number of credible sources - and that means a robust verifying process - it is likely to be without basis. In the case of the current pandemic, unless you are a virologist, you are unqualified to pass comment of any kind. This really pisses me off. We’ve seen as incredible rise in racism because of uninformed posts like this.

Keep in mind this accusation says that the China reported deaths of 3349 were really 133,960, or 40x more. If only 42,000 bodies were processed by all the crematoriums in the area, where are the other 91,960 dead? Plus the usual 40 odd thousand you’d expect amongst a population of 60m or so to die anyway?

No, the WaPo estimates that 42,000 people died in Wuhan of coronavirus, not whatever figure you just threw out there. Where did that even come from? Did you even read the article? Even better, if you think it’s so biased (again, laughable), then pay for the Caixin article that is a source. Caixin is Mainland Chinese, good enough for you?

A farming environment could also harbour one. It could just as easily come from animals westerners consider acceptable for consumption

Yes but there are protocols and procedures. What is the procedure for selling bats? Any laws or regulations to protect ourselves? Thought not, and that’s part of the problem.

Ironically people have less problem with dog meat consumption in South Korea because they are farm raised dogs. Not stolen pets or stray dogs.

Ah, animals we should not eat. Based on which cultures beliefs? Because if you’re a Muslim or Jewish, then no one should eat pigs. So by eating pork, we created swine flu?

How many times must you be told that Chinese by and large do not eat wild animals? It is a minority habit by a wealthy set of Chinese. They eat mainly chicken and pork (unless you’re Chinese Muslim).

I’m puzzled by that last idea mango. I thought the wet markets were supposed to be out in the backwater rural areas and that’s why there’s issues policing them? My general expectation is that poor people eat whatever they can find. I gather you know more about China, but is your experience drawn from its big cities perhaps?

If Johnson is furious with China, and his usual persona would lead one to think that’s plausible, we could be in real trouble. He’ll whip up whatever he wants and fools will follow.