To be so angry at the Chinese government

[HildegardeCrowe]

Because they didn’t shut the wet markets down permanently after SARS so another pandemic was inevitable. The rest of the world is now putting pressure on China to end it’s wildlife trade but this won’t be easy. Most of the world is in lockdown because of this trade and it’s so depressing to think history will repeat itself if China doesn’t get its act together.

The more I learn about how the Chinese abuse wild animals the angrier I get - the latest thing I read about is how they make the lives of bears a misery by extracting their bile.

Surely this is a PR disaster for China?

You realise that some people do eat wild animals in the UK? Rabbit is a delicacy in some circles, as are pheasants or venison. So there isn't really a clear divide between wild animals and farm animals.

Don't believe every heart-wrenching video you see on FB

Don’t have FB or Snapchat or What’s App or any social media so definitely didn’t see the pictures there.

The poor animal was probably electrocuted in the back of the shop and skinned whilst still alive.

You do know they eat cats and kittens as well.

Pheasants and venison that is killed is hardly a wild animal

They are raised on estates and then killed.

It might sound like they roam free but really they don’t.

I can't trawl through this thread but I agree op.

The only difference is I've been angry with China for a very long time. Especially after reading books about chairman mao.
Life and death in shanghai.
Wild swans.

Etc ect.

All the anger however seems to have been directed at the leader of the free world in past few years and no one cares about countries with no human rights or freedoms like China, Saudi, North Korea, Russia.

YANBU OP. But you won't get much sympathy here from misplaced bleeding hearts. China is home to a massive range of human rights abuses (against Chinese citizens to be clear) and other concerns related to rights, corruption and other abuses, but the powerful let the Chinese state get away with it because they need their purchasing power and/or their cheap labour. Look at what happened to Chinese citizens living in the way of Olympic development. Also, wet markets and the abuse of animals in the name of 'medicine' (snake oil) have to stop.

•there's nothing inherently wrong with eating wild animals like rabbits. The problem is many wild animals in China are hunted to the point of near or actual extinction. I saw a turtle in a wet market in a literal bowl of water. Don't even get me started on sun bears, pangolins and monkeys.

•there's nothing inherently wrong with eating dog meat either. The problems are:
A- pets being stolen
B- deliberately inflicting pain/torture to make the meat supposedly taste better (dog meat festival)
C- in humane and unhygienic conditions. 5 or more dogs in a cage, where they can't even turn around

And no, it's not hypocritical to point this out. Two wrongs don't make a right, and I oppose factory farming too

I see on the news China has a new albeit small outbreak on the northern border with Russia. From Chinese citizens traveling back to China from abroad.

Times change @CovidCanFKcuOFF. Borders move, alliances shift, new parties rise to power citing old slogans and sigils. “The free world” is in distinct danger of disappearing. That is why we are questioning its leadership. Do not be deflected by the popularised image of China you are sold. There are issues there. We can’t sort them out while ignoring the dung heap in our own backyard.

@Oliversmumsarmy And what about wild rabbits? Snares are a very cruel way of killing them as well.

Don't believe every heart-wrenching video you see on FB. I guess I don't see the difference really between an animal which happens to be farmed, free, or a domestic pet

Pet dogs are stolen in China and sold to the venders. This is a fact. Raising dogs on farms is not profitable when they can get the supply they need by stealing pets and catching strays. No oversight. It’s very different in South Korea, where there are large-scale dog farms that seem to be relatively profitable.

I'm 100% sure that the dog meat I ate in southern China, somewhat under duress (social situation where it would have been massively rude not to try) was farmed meat

Look, I’m not 100% sure about any of the meat I had in China. I once ate ‘lamb’ kebabs that were almost certainly dog meat once on a camping trip. I noticed over the weekend the dogs the hosts kept ... had disappeared 🤢

How can you be so sure?

Animals Asia says this:

The dog meat industry has long claimed that it farms dogs for their meat, boasting more than 100 registered 'dog meat farms'

But in 2015, a four-year undercover investigation by Animals Asia into the Chinese dog meat trade exposed these claims as false. None of its registered 'farms' had more than 30 dogs on-site and such small scale operations cannot possibly meet such a demand

Some dog meat farms had even been registered under multiple names to manipulate figures, and cover-up the widespread dog and cat thefts which sustains this dirty industry

cushioncovers
Some new cases popping up in Inner Mongolia now too, 35 yesterday.
There are quarantine measure in place for those returning to China and the border is closed to foreigners.

OP here. It’s good that my post sparked such an interesting discussion, thank you for your views. Sadly I heard on R4 earlier that some wet markets have already reopened, supposedly in Wuhan 🙁 I know what a complex issue this is and how in reality we can’t stop this industry. So it seems inevitable that once this pandemic is over, there’ll be another one, sooner or later.

Be angry at the UK government for running down our NHS and public health services, for failing to tackle poverty, for dilly dallying around for weeks, for still not being honest. Be angry at the newspapers and BBC for failing to challenge them .
Bit daft to be angry at China. They knew a lot less about covid than we do now but seem to have managed it better.
Wet markets are a normal thing for hundreds of years all around the world. The difference now is lots of travel and high density living. These are not specific to China.
P.s. Cheese is definitely not made with extracted calf bile.

As Wuhan opens back up, no doubt wet markets are operating, but these are not the same as markets which trade in wild animals for consumption. These have been prohibited and let’s him hope these regulations are being complied with.

And what about wild rabbits? Snares are a very cruel way of killing them as well

I would assume this was illegal and is a tiny few who actually eat rabbit caught this way.

I don’t really visit the butchers and rarely even look at the meat aisle in the supermarket but I cannot think of the last time I saw rabbit meat sold. I remember rabbits hanging up in the butchers shop but that was in the 60s.

“P.s. Cheese is definitely not made with extracted calf bile.”

Sorry but you are wrong. It is called rennet and is the bile from their fourth stomach. Calf’s (Young ruminants) are preferred to cows.
www.wisegeek.com/what-is-rennet.htm

*Pheasants and venison that is killed is hardly a wild animal

They are raised on estates and then killed.

It might sound like they roam free but really they don’t.*

You obviously have zero self-awareness. The statement above shows considerable Western-world entitlement along with ingrained cruelty to animals - to to extent you are unaware of it. These animals are meant to be wild. (And venison is deer meat, not the animal itself. I’m sure they would thank you for at least getting that correct.)

Bit daft to be angry at China. They knew a lot less about covid than we do now but seem to have managed it better

They were the ones who started it with their hygiene practices and eating an animal that they didn’t know exactly where it had come from and then sitting on the problem till it was too late to do anything.

Are you believing China’s numbers?
That they started to build 2 hospitals for Corona virus patients when there had been only a relatively small amount of infections and an even a smaller amount of deaths.

Are you saying you believe that China have it under control?

Seems the 2nd wave is starting there

TheClaws

I actually know a butcher who specialises in pheasant and venison etc so know exactly how it is “farmed”

Given I am vegan I don’t think I have any ingrained cruelty

So it seems inevitable that once this pandemic is over, there’ll be another one, sooner or later.
Yes there will doubtless be another pandemic at some point. However there's no particular reason it should come from a Chinese market. The plague, Spanish flu, MERS, HIV, e Bola, none of these had anything to do with Chinese markets.
Chinese markets have been going on for centuries and this is the first global pandemic to result from one.

TheClaws Can we try to keep irrelevant personal attacks off this thread?

What on earth “self awareness” has to do with this argument I don’t know (unless I has mis-speciesed the op who is actually a deer or pheasant)

Awareness of farming practices/deer and venison treatment, yes, correct them on that if they’re wrong, but let’s not devolve back into immature personal attacks.

“They were the ones who started it with their hygiene practices and eating an animal that they didn’t know exactly where it had come from and then sitting on the problem till it was too late to do anything.”

But the origin of COVID has not yet been traced by scientists. How can you say what started it when the scientific community has not even determined where the virus came from or how it jumped to humans?

Bile is not found in the stomach. Rennet is not made of bile. It is made from the stomach lining. It is not extracted whilst the calf is alive.

It might sound like they roam free but really they don’t.

Oliversmum - Pheasants and deer roam a lot freer than factory farmed chickens and pigs.
However I appreciate as far as you’re concerned there’s more of a class war aspect to pheasant and venison.

oliversmummy
If you look at what is happening in China now: schools going back, tourist attractions open etc it seems that China does have the situation under control with a small number of cases coming from outside.
As everything returning to China has to undergo a 14 day quarantine, they are trying to control a ‘second wave’.
My view is based on what I see happening now (only based on my city): dh went to work as normal, went out to a french restaurant on Saturday, out with friends yesterday, supermarket shopping at the weekend and trip to bakery and cafe.