To be so angry at the Chinese government

[HildegardeCrowe]

Because they didn’t shut the wet markets down permanently after SARS so another pandemic was inevitable. The rest of the world is now putting pressure on China to end it’s wildlife trade but this won’t be easy. Most of the world is in lockdown because of this trade and it’s so depressing to think history will repeat itself if China doesn’t get its act together.

The more I learn about how the Chinese abuse wild animals the angrier I get - the latest thing I read about is how they make the lives of bears a misery by extracting their bile.

Surely this is a PR disaster for China?

Throwing, the '' image '' of China I have is not one I have been sold.

Have read, the personal life of chairmanship mao by his personal doctor, or wild swans, life and death in Shangai etc.

North Korea daily and the endless blogs re China and abuses..

Our own back yard is light years away from the likes of China.. For a start, we can criticise and look into what our leaders do!

Worriedmun,
Rennet is the ruminant equivalent of bile as the digestive system of a bear is different, it being a non-ruminant. Both are secretions to/in the stomach that contain enzymes that aid in the digestion of food.
I never said anything about the extraction occurring while the calf is alive. Of course you have to kill the calf first.

I'm not aware that rabbit meat is illegal, though. Not that I've ever heard about anyway. Rabbit pie was on restaurant menus not all that long ago, I don't know if it still is. It's a lot less socially acceptable now, of course, mainly because adults of my age and younger were brought up reading the novel Watership Down, and watching the cartoon. That's why rabbits are viewed differently to mice and rats.

Historically that wasn't so, they were considered as pests and killed my myxomatosis during the 1970s. That was a very cruel death, so we have no moral high ground when it comes to animal cruelty IMO. (Although barbecuing any animal alive to eat is horrific and should be illegal the world over.)

In France, they eat horse meat, which we wouldn't do in this country either. It's very much about cultural perception. (I'm a cat lover myself, but I have to accept that there isn't really a moral argument as to why a cat's life matters more than a farm animal's.)

Actually Worriedmum I’m not angry at the UK government. I think they’re doing a good job at trying to keep us safe and we’re bloody lucky to be living in a democracy. I was bloody angry at them over Brexit but who knows what will happen with that now. Plan I thought there was pretty much a consensus that the virus jumped from a wild animal to a human in a wet market.

I think they’re doing a good job at trying to keep us safe

Really? The figures from the UK look pretty appalling, compared to other countries with similar starting points.

What on earth “self awareness” has to do with this argument I don’t know (unless I has mis-speciesed the op who is actually a deer or pheasant)

Maybe you need to read it again. Oliversmumsarmy is blithely discussing the raising of pheasants and deer on estates as fine as “they are hardly a wild animal” and “it may sound like they roam free but they really don’t”. But then she takes issue with anyone contrasting this with animal treatment in China. I don’t know her; it is not a personal attack.

I really don’t understand why if there is a ‘14 day quarantine’ in place in China why are the Chineses authorities claiming that all ‘new’ cases of coronavirus are ‘imported’ Very very odd

I just wonder was it human error in the institute of virology in wuhan ?
Some of the virus "escaped". Pandora's Box was opened.

Actually Worriedmum I’m not angry at the UK government. I think they’re doing a good job at trying to keep us safe and we’re bloody lucky to be living in a democracy.

I don’t think this post is going to age well. It doesn’t look good now.

TheClaw
You’ve accused her of having zero self awareness. That’s the “attack” on her character. A bit disingenuous not to admit that.

Utterly you actually went to the length of googling the meaning of the word, saving it, editing it, then pasting it back here to be helpful to ... me? I know what it means. You haven’t changed my mind. This has kind of moved the OP off its theme, though.

Don’t be fooled into thinking this was the doing of the Chinese. I think we all know who’s really responsible

Namechange - who is really responsible?

eveoha
New cases are imported in that chinese returning to China are bringing the virus back in. Everyone is subject to a 14 day quarantine and of course, some of those in quarantine will test positive due to the long incubation period.
Arrivals are tested at the airport and then again on day 13 of quarantine. Further tests may be carried out if a contact tests positive eg someone sitting near you on the plane.
There also seem to be some self isolation policies in operation. Eg for dd’s School if she leaves the province, she cannot return to school for 14 days, but does not have to be quarantined, self isolation at home, but am not sure what happens to the rest of the family.

@PlanDeRaccordement
Bile is produced by the liver and secreted into the small intestine. Ruminant fourth stomachs are the equivalent to ours. Anyway that's beside the point. A pp said that bile is extracted from live calves to make parmesan, similar to how bile is extracted from bears, which is clearly a load of rubbish!

There's no evidence it came from a market, btw.
Our gov are responsible for what happens in this country and they have failed.
They will blame China and the conservatives will believe good old ill (don't make me laugh) Boris, did a brilliant job.

Hey OP
“Plan I thought there was pretty much a consensus that the virus jumped from a wild animal to a human in a wet market.”

Nope. That has not progressed beyond the hypothesis stage.
I posted this up thread, but it’s the latest study so far on the origin. All they could say is that it is of natural origin not laboratory origin.
www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9

“Here we review what can be deduced about the origin of SARS-CoV-2 from comparative analysis of genomic data. We offer a perspective on the notable features of the SARS-CoV-2 genome and discuss scenarios by which they could have arisen. Our analyses clearly show that SARS-CoV-2 is not a laboratory construct or a purposefully manipulated virus.”
“Instead, we propose two scenarios that can plausibly explain the origin of SARS-CoV-2: (i) natural selection in an animal host before zoonotic transfer; and (ii) natural selection in humans following zoonotic transfer.”
“Although the evidence shows that SARS-CoV-2 is not a purposefully manipulated virus, it is currently impossible to prove or disprove the other theories of its origin described here. However, since we observed all notable SARS-CoV-2 features, including the optimized RBD and polybasic cleavage site, in related coronaviruses in nature, we do not believe that any type of laboratory-based scenario is plausible.

More scientific data could swing the balance of evidence to favor one hypothesis over another.”

Hello worriedmum.
Oops I mistakenly thought rennet (presure) was a type of bile. Thank you for your patience in explaining the difference.

Yes there will doubtless be another pandemic at some point. However there's no particular reason it should come from a Chinese market. The plague, Spanish flu, MERS, HIV, e Bola, none of these had anything to do with Chinese markets

For a lot of these pandemics they might not have all come from Chinese markets but the do have one thing in common.

It is the sale and consumption of animals where the hygiene methods are questionable and there is no tracing of that animals origin.
No one knows exactly where that animal has been or what it is infected with.

Tackle those issues and it might stop these sort of pandemics

MERS and Ebola are not pandemics. Nor was SARS.

@Oliversmumsarmy

It is the sale and consumption of animals where the hygiene methods are questionable and there is no tracing of that animals origin.
No one knows exactly where that animal has been or what it is infected with.

Do you have evidence for that claim? Stop presenting conjecture as fact.

The biggest risk in terms of pandemics is lack of knowledge.
We simply don't know what viruses, mainly, circulate in wild animals, and even in domestic animals and humans. Further than that, viruses can recombine.

Swine flu came from a pig farm.
MERS is in camels.
Bird flu spreads in chicken.

Coronaviruses are widespread, even among the human population, but nobody paid them enough attention. Interest dropped out a few years after SARS and despite MERS.

IMO, the best we could do would be to conduct proper research on what's out there. Identify what's in circulation, understand how they work and how they cause disease or not in their hosts.

We also need better monitoring and better hygiene in hospitals. One of the problems identified was how ill prepared hospitals are for infectious diseases.
Hospital infections have been a problem for decades and very little has been done. Doctors, hospital leadership and governments have been very complacent.
When something like this hits, it's calamity.

Lweji Agree.

SharonasCorona

The words “Wild animal” means that no one has raised these animals. No one has tracked these animals. You are dealing with the unknown.

As for hygiene. I have been to enough markets around the world to know that hygiene isn’t high up on the list.

Reminds me of a market I visited where they had what I presume was a sheep chopped up and it’s parts lay on t.towels in the dust and dirt of a street.