To be so angry at the Chinese government

[HildegardeCrowe]

Because they didn’t shut the wet markets down permanently after SARS so another pandemic was inevitable. The rest of the world is now putting pressure on China to end it’s wildlife trade but this won’t be easy. Most of the world is in lockdown because of this trade and it’s so depressing to think history will repeat itself if China doesn’t get its act together.

The more I learn about how the Chinese abuse wild animals the angrier I get - the latest thing I read about is how they make the lives of bears a misery by extracting their bile.

Surely this is a PR disaster for China?

I get u op...it's the plundering of wild animals that caused this. And wet markets etc. However all nations have things that threaten the world. I guess China has threatened the world right now.
A couple of years ago i taught a lesson on pangolin exploitation...little did i know..leave them well alone i say. However as we cannot leave nature alone then more stuff like this will happen .

Shanghai Very true! I don’t think some people realise that they can’t shout and insult to change someone’s opinion - that actually turns people away from their argument. For all those calling plan vile, there will be those who see a reasoned point of view in what she’s posting. It’s a weird place sometimes.

At least they have wild animals left to plunder. We shoot ours. Look up the badger cull, and ask where the European wolves and bears are?

@MangoFeverDream
The problem is, that is completely acceptable in China. Of course, it’s completely unacceptable here. There’s a massive cultural divide that’s not going to be fixed on a Mumsnet thread.

Calling plan vile is too much. She’s not responsible for Chinese government policy.

I do agree that everyone everywhere needs to take stock of human relations with the natural world btw. However i don’t see much to gain in starting from a position of blaming China for life, the universe and everything.

The problem is, that is completely acceptable in China. Of course, it’s completely unacceptable here

It’s not acceptable to many Chinese and they are just as angry over this. This online rumour law is very specific to Xi Jinping’s government. People were censored before, of course. But not punished like this.

Calling plan vile is too much. She’s not responsible for Chinese government policy

Yes, she’s only downplaying what happened by saying he wasn’t tortured so nothing happened to him.

However i don’t see much to gain in starting from a position of blaming China for life, the universe and everything.

Exactly. We can put the boot into China, get wet markets banned and that might make certain people feel better for a day or two.

But another human Coronavirus could come from anywhere. We’d be much better focusing our energies on what our own government should be doing to protect us.

Mango,

I never said it was not a problem. I have only said the truth. That he and the Wuhan lab doctors too were all under NDAs that prohibited them from posting anything (true or false) on social media. WeChat is social media. Because his NDA was essentially with the government, breaking it is a crime.
I make no comment as to whether such laws are just or not. I have just pointed out that similar laws backing NDAs for government employees exist the world over.
I didn’t write these laws but have had to follow them myself.
I only object to people characterising this as a China only occurrence. It’s not.

If that’s vile, then so be it, but I think you are a bit naive to think that this could only happen in China. For example, have you not once wondered why the worlds governments only announce asteroids on a collision course with Earth to the public AFTER they have flown by on a near miss?

'But another human Coronavirus could come from anywhere. We’d be much better focusing our energies on what our own government should be doing to protect us.'

You're right. There needs to be an increase in a global scientific approach to antibody tests and vaccines for viruses. It has possibly been a wake up call. Many, myself included, didn't think this could ever happen.

There was a suggestion here that medical staff speaking out about PPE shortages would be sacked. I’m not sure what truth there was to it, but it wouldn’t surprise me.

I have only said the truth. That he and the Wuhan lab doctors too were all under NDAs that prohibited them from posting anything (true or false) on social media. WeChat is social media. Because his NDA was essentially with the government, breaking it is a crime

He was not charged with breaking an NDA (and no proof he had one). He was charged with making false online rumours.

Dr Ai Fen was not charged with anything, to my knowledge. She just disappeared.

I make no comment as to whether such laws are just or not

You said nothing happened to him. Li made a forced confession under duress. That’s a pretty big deal to me.

I have just pointed out that similar laws backing NDAs for government employees exist the world over

He wasn’t charged over an NDA so why are you even talking about this?

For example, have you not once wondered why the worlds governments only announce asteroids on a collision course with Earth to the public

Hilarious! @PlanDeRaccordement

You have justified and excused the intimidation of Dr. Li Wenliang. He was forced to confess to illegal behaviour but so what right? You said nothing happened to him. Wrong again. He died of Covid. You repeatedly deny that the virus was in existence in November. You dismiss the multiple media reports which assert this. You justify the silencing of whistleblowing doctors in December. And now in a spectacular piece of whataboutery in a thread full of it, you are talking about asteroids? It is but to laugh.....

What he did was illegal, so of course he had no alternative but to confess

Li did nothing wrong. He was in a private group chat sharing information about the novel virus with fellow doctors. What you should do, by the way. Share information.

He was not making false online rumours, they were absolutely true but he had to sign that confession anyway. Of course the Chinese government revoked the charges after his death, but it was much too late ....

This isn’t what you should be defending Plan

‘But I think you are a bit naive to think that this could only happen in China’

Why are people so blind? Look up Harry Miller and the TRA controversy. Police are visiting - and threatening - people in Britain for doing nothing more than voice opinions that some currently vocal, rich, powerful, well-connected men disagree with, with the encouragement of the super liberal middle classes. It happens. We have a class system that systematically disadvantages millions, and vilify those same people. As for Britain’s mistakes affecting Britain and China’s affecting the world, look up Empire history particularly wrt China - and remember that that was driven by greed and fossil fuels.

Just stop this, all this ‘I’m so angry at x not centring me and my concerns’. What are you hoping to gain?

The Chinese government has behaved as they usually do.
I'm not a fan of the Cinese regime at all, and I'm very concerned about civil liberties there, and their increasing economic dominance.

But, to be fair to them, no government anywhere would have been able to recognise this new virus immediately, and previous epidemics were much more easily contained.
They have managed to contain the spread in their own country.

I'm furious, though, at western governments who had fair warning and are still failing to protect their own populations.

Absolutely agree OP. They have a lot to answer to. The whole world is standing still and is totally buggered because of their inaction first time round. If they don't sort it out now, this crisis will happen again.

Oh, and swine flu came from Mexico

Why are people so blind? Look up Harry Miller and the TRA controversy. Police are visiting - and threatening - people in Britain for doing nothing more than voice opinions that some currently vocal, rich, powerful, well-connected men disagree with, with the encouragement of the super liberal middle classes. It happens. We have a class system that systematically disadvantages millions, and vilify those same people. As for Britain’s mistakes affecting Britain and China’s affecting the world, look up Empire history particularly wrt China - and remember that that was driven by greed and fossil fuels

All fine points but they do not belong here.

I personally know someone disappeared by the Chinese government. They took someone away from my workplace one day. I don’t know what happened to him, no one does.

This could happen in the West. But it doesn’t yet. Thankfully.

But silencing your critics by hauling them off to god knows where and scaring everyone else in compliance has led to the spread of this coronavirus.

I could hardly argue about the disappearances but I’d rather sort ourselves out first before lashing out so angrily and blindly at China and anyone else. No they’re not in a good place. We could have stopped or at least slowed the spread reaching us with a travel ban, and restricted it with more stringent quarantining and testing. People were still travelling to Italy while it was at its height there fgs. And stopping over at France on the way back to spread it there.

PlanDeRaccordement

I have my facts straight. They are direct from the WHO webpage

Does anyone believe the WHO.

According to them the virus hadn’t left China on 23rd January.

Anyone actually believe the figures China was putting out?

I think you had to start questioning how bad it really was when with only a relatively few deaths China was building 2 hospitals in as many weeks to tend to the Corona Virus cases.

I do personally believe China should be shut off with regards to trade by other countries and denied status as a super power. Why are people so quick to judge Kim Jong Un and North korea but not China for the exact same reasons?

No one is saying Britain has a clean past, nor does any country actually dont forget other european nations also colonised the world but for some reason no one wants to talk about that or acknowledge the things Britain did put right in the end. None ot that matters with regards to this. Historical crimes and governments have no baring on whats happening in 2020.

People are also happy to talk about Russia and how evil Putin is but again China is off limits for some reson. Even though Russia and China are close and would deffo team up in a war.

They need to be held accountable for the mass genocide they are commiting now against Muslims and prisoners, torturing and killing them and trading their organs, despite probably most of the criminals being normal innocent people who have some how got on the bad side of the government. Its only in very recent history China was openly murdering babies and forcing abortions to comply with the one child policy.

Their abuse of their citizens having no freedom and many being forced to work in sweatshops whilst being an independently very wealthy state is utterly shocking. No access to the internet unless government approved sites, cameras confiscated so the government can review photos they take and more.

Then theres the open abuse of animals. Having wild and endangered animals and domestic animals together in tiny dirty cages, blood and skin and organs everywhere where people walk and touch. Sorry not good enough. The country has so many scientific advancements they bloody well know that having unvaccinated unclean unbred for purpose animals like that is recipe for disaster and this is not the first pandemic SARS to come from them in this fashion.

Until they totally change their ways and prove it long term Britain at the very least should cease trade agreements.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2020/mar/31/nhs-staff-gagged-over-coronavirus-protective-equipment-shortages

This is pretty bad

WHO is not a standalone body - countries such as the UK and US sit on WHO committees and are part of its decision-making.

Britain at the very least should cease trade agreements.

They won’t though, because China’s focus on making goods at low prices suits Britain very well indeed.

@Oliversmumsarmy

There is criticism of their response. You might find this interesting.

www.wsj.com/articles/the-world-health-organization-draws-flak-for-coronavirus-response-11581525207