To be so angry at the Chinese government

[HildegardeCrowe]

Because they didn’t shut the wet markets down permanently after SARS so another pandemic was inevitable. The rest of the world is now putting pressure on China to end it’s wildlife trade but this won’t be easy. Most of the world is in lockdown because of this trade and it’s so depressing to think history will repeat itself if China doesn’t get its act together.

The more I learn about how the Chinese abuse wild animals the angrier I get - the latest thing I read about is how they make the lives of bears a misery by extracting their bile.

Surely this is a PR disaster for China?

Does US still sit on WHO committees if USA don't contribute to WHO any more? (muse)

WHO is not a standalone body - countries such as the UK and US sit on WHO committees and are part of its decision-making

I think this FT article highlights how the WHO has failed and underscores how they were pressured by Chinese officials.

Here it is: www.ft.com/content/2a70a02a-644a-11ea-a6cd-df28cc3c6a68

Interesting tidbits:

Taiwan said its doctors had heard from mainland colleagues that medical staff were getting ill — a sign of human-to-human transmission. Taipei officials said they reported this to both International Health Regulations (IHR), a WHO framework for exchange of epidemic prevention and response data between 196 countries, and Chinese health authorities on December 31

Taiwanese government officials told the Financial Times the warning was not shared with other countries

China’s health ministry only confirmed human-to-human transmission on January 20, after the WHO said in mid-January there might be “limited” human-to-human transmission but stepped back from this view on the same day

The challenge of managing the relationship extended to negotiations over the wording of a report following a joint mission to China last month. The nine-day trip comprised 12 WHO experts and 13 Chinese officials and was focused on the country’s response to the outbreak. Three of the WHO officials also visited Wuhan, the centre of the outbreak, as part of the mission. The WHO’s Bruce Aylward, the Canadian epidemiologist who led the team, described the process as “fantastic”. But he told the FT there was “huge back and forth” with Chinese officials about what went into the report

Dr Aylward said Chinese health officials did not want to refer to the pathogen as “dangerous” as they regarded such terminology as reserved for diseases with higher mortality rates

Clifford Lane, clinical director of America’s National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases who was one of two US officials on the mission, said the WHO team’s Chinese members had “a great desire to be precise”. He said the debates over wording did not amount to censorship but represented a “bit of spin”

We're not allowed to say any negative things about China or its government on here, OP.

We're not allowed to say any negative things about China or its government on here, OP.

Of course you are and there’s much to criticise.

But sticking the boot into China won’t do much to ensure this never happens again. It would be more advantageous to focus on the lessons that can be learned from mistakes made by the UK government. Which were pretty significant.

Britain at the very least should cease trade agreements

It doesn’t matter whether the government don’t stop trading with China if people stop buying the goods and services from there then we might just get the message through

Gingham go back and count the positives vs the negatives if you think that’s true.

Also remember that the majority of people will be against the Chinese government, but Chinese people are as stuck with their government as we are with ours, and as outraged as we are. Some people on Mumsnet take threads like this as a green light to bash all Chinese people and come out with racist bullshit. Unsurprisingly plenty of people won’t stand for that.

But sticking the boot into China won’t do much to ensure this never happens again

They don’t listen to internal criticism obviously so it’s up to those on the outside to voice and act on it, no?

This doesn’t preclude the UK from improving their response to a global pandemic.

but Chinese people are as stuck with their government as we are with ours

What a profoundly disingenuous statement. To equate a liberal democracy in which voters get the chance to hit eject on the government every five years with a one party state? That demonstrates either an ignorance about totalitarian regimes. Or it's an apologia for them.

so it’s up to those on the outside to voice and act on it, no?

Another human Coronavirus could emerge from anywhere.

I’m sure all governments across the world could do with some constructive criticism from the outside, some more than others. Where do we end with that thought?

Bovary what the fuck are you on about?
I mean (clearly, one would have thought) - The people of a country shouldn’t be judged by the actions of their government.

You - frothy diatribe about totalitarian regimes.

Honestly. Stop misrepresenting everything I say. You’re getting a bit obsessive.

I’m sure all governments across the world could do with some constructive criticism from the outside, some more than others. Where do we end with that thought?

My point is that it's far easier to criticise the CCP on the outside than from the inside. This I could not do while living there. And maddeningly they seem more sensitive to external rather than any internal criticism.

Another human Coronavirus could emerge from anywhere

I know I’m on repeat here but twice in less than 20 years from the same cause. Not only do a minority of rich Chinese enjoy exotic meat and rare animal-derived medicine, but they are far more mobile than ever before.

Ebola was iirc caused by eating wild meat but that part of the globe is generally not rich nor mobile so less of a global problem and was more a regional crisis. Bush meat should definitely be discouraged but my awareness of the cultural background to this is low.

I know I’m on repeat here but twice in less than 20 years from the same cause.

No guarantees that it will come from there again.

Assuming that CVs only emerge from China strikes me as very foolish.

but Chinese people are as stuck with their government as we are with ours

That's what you said. I didn't misrepresent you. I quoted you. There is zero equivalence between a one party state and a liberal democracy. I suggest you stop trying to equate them. By the way? It is you who are swearing at me. Calm down.

The people of a country shouldn’t be judged by the actions of their government

This is really what you should have said then and is quite correct. It’s actually more true for Chinese than Brits who did actually vote this government in ...

Assuming that CVs only emerge from China strikes me as very foolish

Please quote where I said that. But the specific circumstances of live animal wet markets is a fertile environment for disease transmission and stacking cages of various wild species of unknown provenance up upon each other is downright dangerous. They learned nothing from SARS....

But hopefully China will learn from this ... unlike last time. But I do admit this practice is also common in Southeast Asia so could come from there. But again, SEA is poorer and the people often not as mobile as Chinese.

Bovary Ok, so your literal understanding is exemplary, well done! But how about the point that we shouldn’t judge the average Chinese person based on the actions of their government? Any word on that one?

@UtterlyPerfectCartoonGiraffe

Bovary Ok, so your literal understanding is exemplary, well done!

Hmm. I am not quite sure whether you think your peculiar debating style reflects well on you. It does not. You seem to have difficulty with owning your own words. Or expressing yourself clearly. When challenged, you become belligerent. Not impressive.

I asked for an answer not a personal attack. Can you give an answer?

An answer to what?

Bovary
Is there really any need to be quite so condescending?
Giraffe’s post was clear.
Perhaps cut out the comments on people’s debating style. It’s really not necessary.

”But how about the point that we shouldn’t judge the average Chinese person based on the actions of their government? Any word on that one?”

That was my question to you.

@ShanghaiDiva
Perhaps you can address your lesson on decorum to the poster who starts swearing at me because I quoted her words?

Of course not.

I would like to hear an answer from Bovary to Giraffe's question as well. That poster seems to be more interested in putting other posters down than engaging in intelligent debate, despite the accusation that Giraffe was doing the same thing.

but Chinese people are as stuck with their government as we are with ours

@ShanghaiDiva
If you seriously can't understand why someone might question that statement? So be it.