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Schools could reopen in weeks

635 replies

Orangeblossom78 · 10/04/2020 15:21

In todays "Times"

"Schools could reopen in a few weeks as coronavirus restrictions begin to be lifted, Public Health England suggested this morning.

Paul Cosford, the agency’s emeritus medical director, said that easing the lockdown for the young first was being considered as ministers look to set out an exit plan for the coming weeks.

Finding a way out of lockdown is the government’s “number one topic and priority”, according to Neil Ferguson of Imperial College London, one of its leading advisers on the epidemic.

Professor Cosford said: “People are doing really well with the social distancing and it is working as far as we can see to flatten this pandemic,” but acknowledged the balance between controlling the epidemic and allowing normal life to resume.

He said that now was not the moment to relent, telling Today on BBC Radio 4: “Once you start getting things under control, that’s the time you absolutely need to continue with all your measures so that you can bring the disease right down and crack it.”

He expects there to be “a lot of discussions over the next week or so” about an exit strategy. Asked if restrictions might be eased in several weeks, he said: “I think several weeks isn’t unreasonable. Let’s hope it’s sooner than that.”

He said that starting by letting the young resume normal life was being considered. “The importance of children’s education, children being in school is paramount. That’s not the only issue but I could conceive of circumstances where some of the restrictions are lifted sooner and some are lifted later,” he said.

“There are some really difficult issues here because if you look at children and the closure of schools, a very important measure to help get this under control, but we do know that children are very low risk of getting serious complications of this disease.”

Professor Ferguson told the same programme that while hospital admissions appeared to be plateauing, “it’s going to be several more weeks before we can definitively conclude anything about the rate of decline and therefore when measures could be lifted”.

He said it was “good news” that more people were obeying social distancing rules than the government expected and said that “measures will be targeted probably by age, by geography” on lifting lockdown.

“There are lots of ideas worth exploring. That’s what’s happening right now. We clearly don’t want these measures to continue longer than is absolutely necessary — the economic costs, social costs, personal costs and health costs are huge.”

Head teachers are lobbying the government to reopen schools before the summer holidays, even for just a few weeks, if scientific advice says that it is safe.

Paul Whiteman and Geoff Barton, the general secretaries of the NAHT and ASCL head teachers’ unions, have told ministers pupils would benefit greatly from schools reopening before the summer, rather than waiting until September.

They believe that even a few weeks of school would help pupils remember what formal learning is like and what is required of them. If schools do not open before the summer children will have been away from the classroom and formal learning for more than five months.

The Department for Education is said to have shown a “genuine interest” in the approach, which would see pupils return for a number of weeks during the summer term to “reacquaint themselves with the educational environment”.

The government has made clear that it is too soon to consider reopening schools after the Easter holidays following speculation that pupils could return as soon as April 20.

“That said, once the scientific advice is that schools can return safely, they should do so, even if it’s for a very limited period before the summer break, as this will allow young people to reacquaint themselves with the educational environment,” the two leaders told Schools Week journal.

However, they warned that any return to normality “has to be a planned one”.

“It can’t be about flicking a switch on a Friday night and then thinking it’s all going to be all right on a Monday morning,” they said.

OP posts:
DeathByBoredom · 10/04/2020 16:45

The curve is going to be going up, down, up, down for a few years. This virus is going nowhere. We will get used to the concept in a while. The nhs is never going to get the capacity to not be overwhelmed. Shielding the vulnerable and cracking on with things is going to be what we settle down into. So ... keep kids away from their great/grandparents by keeping the elderly inside ... then schools can reopen.
Leaves the government in a tricky spot wrt retirement ages, so I would expect that age at which it is recommended you stay home to magically be above 66

GinnyStrupac · 10/04/2020 16:46

We need to be much further down the curve on the other side

Agreed.

WhatWouldYouDoWhatWouldJesusDo · 10/04/2020 16:46

There is no way I'd go back to work at a school anytime soon, they're infectious germ holes at the best of times and I massively applaud those who are risking their lives each day so keyworkers can do their jobs and vulnerable children are kept safe.

As for the rest of us, well parents are just going to have to parent for the time being. It's a pain I know and it's sad for the kids but things will get back to normal. It just won't be for a while yet

farfallarocks · 10/04/2020 16:46

Kids back to school should be the absolute
Priority for both their sakes and the economy, the implosion of which will cause far more deaths than this virus

TossACoinToYourWitcher · 10/04/2020 16:47

@LondonJax

See my second comment above. I'm referring to studies where large scale antibody testing has been carried out abroad.

farfallarocks · 10/04/2020 16:48

I dont think parents can’t be arsed to parent! Many are desperately trying to work you know. I’m tying to save a company that employs 200 people. I’d much rather be baking and doing bond books with my kids.

DeathByBoredom · 10/04/2020 16:49

Ah.. the papers ... it's kiteflying

Run a few stories, see how it goes down, float ideas, get people prepared

Particularly the daily fail and torygraph. Tricky for them, with their demographic, so quite funny to read.

Oakmaiden · 10/04/2020 16:49

You've got medical staff coming out of retirement to help on the front line, but as soon as you mention a teacher missing a week or 2 of holiday...
We should all do our part

Thing is, if we have come out of lockdown by July (which I very much suspect we will have) then I think families would be fucking furious if you cancelled their summer holidays with their children.

I think an optional summer school would be a fantastic idea, or saying that children have to go in for any 2 weeks of the 6, but I think it would be too difficult to resource and plan for. Children's education will not be ruined by having had 4-6 months off school. My real concern is those in years 10 and 12 who will have missed chinks of their qualification courses, and whose playing field has been massively unevened by the vastly different online schemes being offered by schools, and by families abilities to take advantage of the work that is offered. Felicity, whose private school is offering a full days worth of teaching which she undertakes in the quiet of the family study with mother on hand to help will come out of this having learnt much more than Callum, whose comp posts a daily piece of work online for each lesson, but who shares a single laptop with his 5 brothers in their 3 bed house, with parents who are out at work all day.

Timefor45 · 10/04/2020 16:50

We have flu vaccines at school level every winter to protect our elderly and vulnerable communities. Do we know what the impact on flu death figures would be if this vaccine wasn’t carried out every year?
No vaccine and no widely-available testing for CVD19 means if you’re waiting for a virus ‘end date’ before you’d want your kids back at school, they’re going to be off an awfully long time...think years, not months.

Crownofthorns · 10/04/2020 16:50

^Totally agree. I really hope that they do reopen after May half-term so that the remainder of the academic year can be salvaged at least. DD4 has mild SEN (she’s on the waiting list for ASD assessment) and I have depression and anxiety. This virus isn’t going anywhere so we need to try and get things back to normal - or a new normal - as soon as possible. My view has always been that the vulnerable and elderly should isolate and the rest of us should go back to work, school etc...

halcyondays · 10/04/2020 16:52

But lots of children have parents who are vulnerable because of health conditions so what are they supposed to do? It’s not just older people who are higher risk.

And of course children who have health conditions themselves.

thunderthighsohwoe · 10/04/2020 16:53

The thing about shortening the summer holidays though is that teachers are contracted and paid for their 39 weeks a year, but spread over 12 months.

I’m working through my Easter non-contracted weeks already and happy to do so, on a voluntary basis. If the summer is shortened, however, I’m not sure where we’ll get the money for extra childcare weeks, seeing as DP is currently out of work but should hopefully be back once lockdown eases....I assume grandparents will still be under lockdown and therefore we won’t be able to use them.

PaulHollywoodsSexGut · 10/04/2020 16:54

After the first May BH is my strong estimate

Appuskidu · 10/04/2020 16:57

The papers are running stories now about how school closure didn't affect spread

Based on one flawed piece in the Lancet which most people didn’t bother to read. The tabloids picked up on it and wrote a load of made up drivel.

If you had actually read it, you would know that this was utter bollocks and to keep repeating it is extremely irresponsible.

ScabbyHorse · 10/04/2020 16:57

Schools are already open, just for less kids. Teaching staff like myself are mixing with kids every few days, and in a primary school like mine it's impossible to social distance properly. I love my job but it's putting me and my colleagues at risk every time we go in.
I don't think it's a good idea to reopen before we know the true scale of this.

IScreamForIceCreams · 10/04/2020 16:57

You're a week behind us in NL. Schools are shut till 10th May, includes 2-wk holiday. Do the maths...we'll be lucky if closure doesn't get extended.

Peppafrig · 10/04/2020 16:58

For schools to open for a few weeks before start of summer holidays would mean going back end of May for Scottish kids

JesmondDene · 10/04/2020 16:58

Bookoffacts
There no reason why they can't move teachers to different schools, or combine schools or have double class sizes. That way of thinking (that things can't be done) said that they'd never cancel the national exams

Yes, I know we are doing this now - I work at a senior level in education - I am one of those organising it all. A nightmare for ensuring safeguarding of children but having a team work 7 days per week, including the Easter weekend - we are doing it. Our schools are open 7 days a week for KW children, with schools working together to staff this.

However, you missed my point which is that in my LA the peak isn't going to happen until the end of May/early June. Schools are not going to open in the peak.
Moving staff to open our schools won't happen - from London say - because CV has peaked - to the North where we are all off ill. Not realistic at all.

cantkeepawayforever · 10/04/2020 16:59

It's all a matter of balancing the benefits and the collateral damage, isn't it?

11 bus drivers have died so far, as a result of keeping the buses running in London.

There are about 20x more teachers than there are London bus drivers, as far as Google will tell me (c. 25,000 vs c. 500,000).

So would the deaths of 220 teachers be acceptable collateral damage for schools re-opening? (There would obviously be more 'school employed adults who died, because there are TAs. dinner ladies, cleaners etc in schools as well)?

Those 11 deaths to date have, rightly, given rise to a big change in the way buses run - safety screens for drivers, entry only through middle doors etc.

Moving from schools that are predominantly closed (no schools locally that I know of are 'closed', they just aren't full open - all offering emergency childcare as required) to fully open would allow a chance - not afforded the bus drivers, who have worked throughout - a chance to get proper safety measures in place FIRST, rather than once the deaths of staff have occurred.

Schools cannot wait for the risk to fall to zero. However, adult school employees, and parents, have every right to expect that the risks of collateral damage of schools being re-opened, in terms of illness and deaths, should be managed and minimised.

GinnyStrupac · 10/04/2020 16:59

The papers are running stories now about how closures didn't affect spread.

On the whole, they are just stories. Scientific and medical opinion varies on this but comes down on the side which says that school closures are essential to saving lives and preventing the NHS becoming overwhelmed.

Temporary hospitals and mortuaries are now a reality. I hope that mass graves don't become a reality in the UK too.

DeathByBoredom · 10/04/2020 17:00

You can be all stroppy about the papers printing stories, @Appuskidu, but they are kiteflying ideas. Reality will have little to do with how this is spun. The economy needs workers. You will be told it is safe. Until you are told it is dangerous. And so on.

underneaththeash · 10/04/2020 17:02

I think they'll be back start-mid June. There was an interesting letter in the Times today from someone who pointed out that large scale gatherings take place between the parents at the end of the day, so I think primary schools will have to introduce staggered start/finish times. I also suspect that things like assembly will be virtual for the time being.

I think schools and nurseries will be one of the first things to open as children/young people aren't that affected by the coronavirus compared to other groups and parents won'y be able to go back to work effectively until schools/nurseries re-open.

Peppafrig · 10/04/2020 17:02

@Bookoffacts you say UK but that isn't the case in Scotland . We don't have May half term.

CallmeAngelina · 10/04/2020 17:04

I told you it'd be summer half term!

We have no idea if you did or did not, but how about waiting until this actually happens before shouting "I told you so?" Even if you did, it would have been a wild shot in the dark based on wishful thinking.

ittakes2 · 10/04/2020 17:04

I get so frustrated with the whole its OK to open schools because children tend not to get very sick with the virus...which might be true but they often live with parents who are eligible for flu shots because they are at risk!

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