Does my mum owe my money, or AIBU?

[Toddlertown]

Genuinely conflicted on this, so need some non biased opinions.

I’ll try to keep it brief.

When I was in my early 20s my mum split with her then partner, she had enough money for a deposit on a flat but couldn’t borrow enough on her earnings alone so I went on the mortgage with her. She did not live there, she lived with her new partner.

I lived in the flat with a flat mate & we split the mortgage & all bills equally so mum had no expenses.

Two years later, she sold the flat for 30k more than she bought it for, she then went on to buy a house with her partner & I went back into private rental.

I gained nothing from it but I never expected/wanted to. It helped my mum out & I thought at the time, it didn’t really make any difference to my life so that was that.

Fast forward some years & I now have a partner & young children of my own. We have recently been looking into buying after being left a generous, but not huge amount of money from DPs nan.

Now going through the mortgage application, I have found out because I am not considered a first time buyer (because of the flat with mum when younger, despite no financial gain.) the stamp duty for us is almost 5k more then it would be if I hadn’t had that mortgage in my name. 😮

5k is a huge amount of difference!! & I never knew this!

Now my AIBU..!

AIBU for thinking my mum should be responsible for paying the increased amount? I can’t bare the thought of asking her & feel like I’m being a shitty person. But equally I didn’t gain a single dime from that flat but now I’m looking at being 5k down because of it and that doesn’t seem fair either?

YABU - it’s your responsibility to pay the extra
YANBU - your mum should help you

Thanks!

Your mother owes you £15,000

I'm shocked she didn't give it too you at the time

That's really bad of her

So (and this may well have been answered up thread) Mum lived 'rent' free for 2 years, thanks to you and a flat mate paying all the expenses including the mortgage? If so, she saved a helluva lot of money in that time.

If this was me, and one of my DC, I would be offering some financial contribution to help them with their purchase. I did with my DD and her partner, because I could (just about).

I wonder why the solicitor didn’t query this when you were signing all the paperwork for the sale. I would have thought that they would have thought it a bit dodgy that only one of you was getting the profit. I know when we bought our house they gave us lots of info about fraud, money laundering etc and how they are constantly on the look out for things like that. Surely they would have questioned this.

The moment you put your name on a mortgage and your name is on the deeds, you own the house regardless of who put a deposit down. The arrangement of who gets what profit depends on the arrangement you make at the time.

If you've made none, what is fair is that whatever was left over after she got her deposit back + fees should have been shared 50/50. However, could it be that there was nothing much left after that?

It would be nice for your mum to help regardless of the above on the basis that ultimately, you are now left with having to pay more which you otherwise wouldn't, however, it also depends on the exact conversation that took place. It doesn't make much sense for your mum to want to buy a house to rent, for you to be in it and just paying the mortgage, which was probably significantly lower than what she would have got in rent.

It sounds like there was an agreement that she'd buy the place to benefit you too by paying lower than you would otherwise have done. I would work out how much that came to in the two years, and if close to the £5k, I would think differently. Still ok to ask, but as her doing you a favour rather than a due.

But as things stood at the time it would not have affected stamp duty on future purchases. Neither of you could have foreseen this change. Did you have a legal arrangement about how the ownership was split and the deposit/equity divided?

Did you sign to agree the sale?
As can't see how the profit was never included.
You have to have signed it over to your mum,?
I would give you the £5000 as your mum, and feel bad and need to sort the extra profit as well.

Difficulty is - these are discussions that should have been had at the time! I get you didn’t think about stamp duty, but you were on the mortgage, paid half the mortgage (your flatmate paid the other half) and really you should have profited from the sale.

OP you sound like a good person and I don’t think you are being unreasonable in feeling this has backfired but technically you never agreed that your mum owes you anything. Could you have a chat with her and mention that you are struggling with stamp duty as you are not a first time buyer? You could even mention that you didn’t realise helping her would impact you this way. She might offer to help and then you can delightedly accept.

I’m in the your mother screwed you camp. Be careful how you ask though. She basically got free money. That isn’t fair. You were young and didn’t understand the implications. She was living with her partner and not even in the house, which she didn’t even need. I find it so hard to believe she didn’t try and help you continue to be a home owner. 😮

Am I the only one wondering if your relationship is so good because you’re a people pleaser and pushover?

Yes of course she should give you the money. She is your mum. Parents help their children out as far as they are able.

Bearing in mind the profit she made thanks to your help, the £5,000 is the bare minimum she should give you.

It's quite simple.

She doesn't owe you the £5,000 for stamp duty.

She does owe you £15,000 for the profit on the sale of the flat.

*She's your mum. She's probably spent a lot of money on you as she raised you.

I think this one is on you. YABU*

Really? Isn’t that what is expected of you when you chose to have a child? The OP didn’t ask to be born! And you certainly don’t try to recoup the costs of feeding and clothing a child - you know, the bare minimum - from that child, when they grow up!

I think you ought to just ask her. If she's got the money it would be mean not to pay, you really helped her out, and despite being on the mortgage she didn't share that equity with you, did she, despite the fact that she should have, legally and morally.

If it was me I would start the conversation with her by say "Mum, remember a few years ago how I helped you out with the flat, well unfortunately it's had a knock on effect and it's now going to cost me and extra £5K to buy my home. I wasn't expecting it and it's going to delay our purchase. Would you be up for helping me by going halves and paying £2.5K?."
Now she might say no or she might offer to pay the whole amount but it would at least make her aware of your situation.

How much was the deposit your mum paid?

So she got £1000 a month in rent (over 2 years £24k) AND £30k when she sold the flat?

I think yes, you are entitled to ask for the £5k

I'm a solicitor and have acted for, well, basically YOU!

In that case, the buyer did approach the mum and they came to some sort of arrangement. Nothing to do with me, as people have pointed out, there's no legally obligation.

Let me check - you say you "were on the mortgage" but were you definitely on the title? Was the property in your name?

I’m another one the your DM owes you 15k camp. You can’t really ask for that now but I would ask for the 5k stamp duty money.

People are mad saying the mum owes 15k!! Mad! I bet these are the ones who shout go non contact at any imagined slight.

Why didn't you get 50% of the equity when sold

this ^

@MinecraftMother

If OP was party to the mortgage it’s very likely she was also on the title. The only lender I’m aware of that will allow someone to be party to the mortgage and NOT on the title is HSBC.

If that’s the case (which is unlikely) OP will have had her rights read to her and had to sign some form of disclaimer.

As well as 50% of the profit, your half of the rent should have been going towards building up your own equity too, minus interest.

So 500x24 = £12,000.

Plus your half of the profit, £15,000, = £27,000.

Your mum owes you £27,000 and she's walked off with it for herself and not given you a second thought.

Radn assuming the OP's rent should be counted as payment towards the mortgage (which isn't unreasonable but doesn't seem to have been their agreement), only a fraction of the rent payment would be building up equity. Especially in the early years of a mortgage, the vast majority of a payment covers interest, not repayment of the loan amount.

She does owe you but how much is debatable.
So basically, if she put in a deposit and you duct not then she owned a greater % if the property. The profit in excess of the mortgage repayment that you paid in "rent" should have been proprtiobsyr, as should the profit on sale. You had the risk of being on the mortgage.
Perdonsllg, I'd just ask for the £5I and see what she says, knowing you can bring the other issues in if she says, no. You were legally entitled to a share of the profit on Sale if you did not sign anything to say you weren't.

I wouldn't ask her for anything but I would mention to her the additional cost due to not being considered a first time buyer. If she's inclined to gift you anything then great.

You did her a big favour and neither of you could've forseen the future repercussions.