AIBU? Circumcision?

[Poppygirl96]

Me and my ex have recently split up and we have a 5 month old son. He told me when I was pregnant that he wanted to get our son circumcised due to his religion and that it was really important to him. I was heavily pregnant tired and not really thinking much about it so I blindly agreed. However I have been thinking about it a lot and really don’t want our son to get unnecessarily cut even if it is for religious reasons.

My ex says it’s also to keep him clean but I don’t see the point. We haven’t found anyone to do the surgery as our son was prem so we couldn’t and now there’s COVID-19 so we can’t go now. If I bring it up and go against him, I know my ex will be pissed and it will cause a huge argument especially as it’s so important to him, his mother and his religion.

I don’t want to ruin co-parenting with him and cause issues so I’m not sure what to do/say. AIBU in saying I don’t want to go ahead with it?

We were never married but he is on DS birth certificate and DS has his last name

Ah right so he's chosen to ignore the elements of his own religion that confer responsibility on him but expects you and DS to conform to the parts of his religion that he dictates even though you don't share it.

Fuck that. OP I think you need to resign yourself to the fact that co-parenting will be difficult.

I also strongly advise that you change your DS's surname to yours as this will make things much easier in terms of travel, school and medical appointments. You have 12 months to do this after birth and it's relatively simple

He would be really upset with me and it would make out co parenting really difficult and strained and I don’t want him to make things awkward as I’m waiting for him to buy me out of my share of the house so that I can move on

FWIW I agree with the majority that your DS's safety and comfort comes first; however you didn't ask us for a general rant on MGM/FGM but about your own situation, and I'm wondering if he could make cutting your son a condition of him "playing nice" over finances. Nothing changes his legal responsibilities, but if he's the type to "get annoyed" he may not care, especially if he's pressured by family

In a way it's a shame he's on the birth certificate and yes he's being hypocritical as to which bits he chooses, but there's nothing new about that with any religion, and in the family's eyes you could find yourself deemed "unsuitable" as a single mother but your DS prioritised. Totally wrong of course, but there's no point pretending it doesn't happen

Personally I'd suggest some good legal advice, both for your son's sake and your own. If money's an issue, maybe you could start with some of the womens' organisations, many of whom have experience in this sort of thing?

FGM is much, much worse. It causes the girls lifelong issues with menses, urinating, sex, greatly increases risk of childbirth etc, for boys it generally doesn't cause any long term issues. You can not compare them.

That's not to say I agree with male Circumcision, because I don't, but it's nowhere near as harmful as FGM.

OP, my concern would be that his father will have it done secretly and non-safely by a person with no medical qualifications. If you really think that is a risk, and you can not reasonably prevent it happening, then seriously consider agreeing to having it done in a sterile environment with a qualified person for your sons safety and health.

Stop banging on about coparenting with him, as if that’s a good reason to mutilate your child ffs

Do not leave him alone with your son until he is older and it won't be done.
There is no justification for mutilating a baby.

@JosieJosie1 If I handed my daughter to a doctor and said 'Oh, just trim off her inner labia so she can be clean' they would say no. Yet the same excuse is used and accepted to circumcise boys. How is that moronic to bring up?

@SleepOhHowIMissYou

It's not just the amount of damage that differs in male and female circumcision, it's also the intent of the act.

EXACTLY. FGM is intended to make sure females never enjoy sex. It is extremely dangerous, and despite a few people denying it, it IS often done with no anaesthetic and a blunt, un-sanitised blade.

Male circumcision is not intended to render the boy impotent. Female circumcision strips the girl of any sexual pleasure in all cases, and in extreme cases means sex and childbirth involves being cut open again.

Exactly this. If the girl doesn't DIE from sepsis, after the barbaric act of FGM, or die from a serious infection, when she starts her periods and the 'menstruation matter' can't come out properly; she is very likely to be cut open later on in life, (probably by the same person who butchered her as a child,) so she can give birth.

Male circumcision is carried out for religious purposes, and female circumcision is carried out for cultural purposes.

Male circumcision denotes belonging and is done in the belief of better heath for the boy. Female circumcision is done to control and keep girls faithful and obedient.

Agree with this too. Chopping the females clitoris out, is a way to ensure she doesn't enjoy sex, and having her sewn up so only menstrual tissue/blood can come out (hopefully,) will ensure she doesn't enjoy sex. Coz why should she? She is just a lowly female after all?!

Also, cutting off the labia is nothing LIKE removing the foreskin FFS. I can't believe people are making THIS nonsensical comparison either.

FFS. It's like banging your head against a brick wall with some posters on here, it really is. The ignorance and lack of education (from SOME posters, - assuming FGM and circumcision is the the same, ) is astounding.

It's hugely insulting and breathtakingly disrespectful to the millions of women who have to endure FGM, to say 'it's the SAME as circumcision in males.'

I have said it before, and I will say it again........ EDUCATE YOURSELVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He was happy to have a child without a marriage so he can fuck off with the religious observation stuff.

Circumcision is utterly abusive.

Tell him no.

I think you are right in refusing the circumcision of your son. Personally I can't understand why this practice is not viewed with the same disgust as FGM. As for reason why it is acceptable when its purely for religious or aesthetic reasons.

1. Cleanliness - the foreskin protects the glans and keep them clean ( the very reason for it being there) washing can easily be done by gently retracting the foreskin so can't understand why it should be dirty. We don't remove other parts of our body to keep them clean. i.e I get dirt under my finger nails at work, I don't remove my finger nails, just scub them!
2. Religion - Circumcision due to reasons described in a medieval texts is a pretty lame excuse for body mutilation of infants. The validity of believing that a greater being up in the sky created males with a foreskin solely so that it could later be removed to distinguish believers from non-believers is pretty absurd. Surely "God" created us the way he wished us to be.

Circumcision removes a large proportion of the nerve ending at the tip of the penis the derive sexual feeling and pleasure. The skin actually also provides a extra layer of movement during intercourse similar to lubrication. It's sad that people still seem to want to redesign what nature evolved our bodies into without more than whimsical arguments.
Stick to you guns, your son will thank you in the future.

Personally I can't understand why this practice is not viewed with the same disgust as FGM
Read the post two above yours. MC and FGM are not the same, in any way

I'm from Canada where it is completely normal to circumcise boys. I am also Jewish, so this has been further normalised for me. There hasn't been any pressure from my family to circumcise, but I will not be having it done when my son is born as it is not medically necessary. I would advise you to have a very frank discussion with your ex and tell him your views (which are just as valid as his). It's up to you both to make the decision.

@pleasepleasepleasehelp Actually I'm comparing cutting off large inner labia to circumcision. No one hands their newborn daughter over to the doctor get rid of it, even though it's harder to clean than foreskin. The 'cleanliness' issue is one of the biggest reasons for male circumcision, even though labias are much more difficult to clean.

Not once did I mention FGM. I'm talking about a cosmetic procedure, which male circumcision almost always is. Keep shouting though.

RU562341I fully understand that they are totally different types of procedures and FGM is much more severe but in essence they both involve the removal of parts of genitalia of infants or children without their consent and for no purpose other than for traditional, cultural or religious reasons. Both remove nerve tissue and sensation to suppress or physically make it impossible or impractical to achieve masterbation. i.e. both procedures derive to control sexual urges and so called "sin".

suffering is a proper test of faith. - for goodness' sake. Have we not moved on from this primitive nonsense?

FGM and circumcision share one thing - they both involve mutilating a child's genitals - one is more extensive and invasive than the other - but they are both entirely wrong in principle and should be outlawed. No-one has the right to mutilate a child. The degree of mutilation does not negate the principle.

One might as well say that mutilating a male child is just fine, because it does not involve the same degree of mutilation as a female child. So, one murder is fine, because it is not as bad as two? Both are simply wrong.

Stand up for what is right - do not let this man force your hand.

I am completely unable to understand why someone who believes in the existence of a good or all-powerful god can imagine that this god made a dreadful mistake when creating boys and tacked on an unnecessary bit of skin.

Circumcision is a barbaric ritual practised thousands of years ago - we are no longer barbarians.

@pleasepleasepleasehelp Actually I'm comparing cutting off large inner labia to circumcision. No one hands their newborn daughter over to the doctor get rid of it, even though it's harder to clean than foreskin. The 'cleanliness' issue is one of the biggest reasons for male circumcision, even though labias are much more difficult to clean.
Wtaf? Every now and then posts just make me boggle
Labia are not more difficult to clean than foreskin
Most boys in the UK are circumcised for medical or religious reasons. I dont think its common at all for circumcision to happen for cleanliness although I have heard that described as a benefit.

There is no equivalence at all between labia and foreskin

If the only reason you are considering letting it happen is to avoid upsetting ex and his mum then that doesn't sound like a very valid reason. My DH had his done as young boy for medical reasons, we have personal issues as a result (won't go into detail with it!) but the foreskin is there for a reason and unless medically necessary I wouldn't recommend it. A foreskin or any part of your genetalia is not unclean... unless you don't clean it ...

Say to ex that when DS is old enough he can decide for himself? That means you're not saying no, you're just saying it's not either of your decisions to make.

I personally find it weird that people call it religious to purposefully and uneccesarily tamper with what God gave you in the first place.

I wouldn't trust him to not have it done when he has access.

it will cause a huge argument especially as it’s so important to him, his mother and his religion
Funny how religion becomes all important when it comes to asserting dominance eh?
Shame he didn't give a shit about the same religion when he was living with you unmarried and having kids outside of marriage.....what does his religion say about that?

Your child is perfect as he is and he doesn't need to be physically mutilated to seal his allegiance to a particular religion.

Is your son going to be raised in his fathers religion?
Cos that's what the circumcision is for - proving that you belong to that religion. It has nothing to do with 'cleanliness' - not if you understand basic hygiene.

If it was akin to FGM then circumcised men would not be able to feel pleasure and I can assure you they most certainly do.

Difficult situation for the OP, but not the same as FGM.

Good lord @saleorbouy circumcised men certainly have no problem masturbating! Where on earth did you get that idea? For men my age in Canada (& America) it’s perfectly common. Did you think the majority of North American men weren’t wanking?😂

Can we put aside the it is/ isn't like FGM argument?

The OP has a little boy - one who she is considering allowing somebody to chop a piece of his penis off of, because she feels bad for her ex's feelings about changing her mind.

Can we put aside the it is/isn't like FGM argument?

If only

Nobody pretends it's not important but it's not what OP asked, and aside from some very helpful posts what she's had in the main is a multi-page rant

No wonder she's not been back recently ...

My husband was circumcised as a child for medical reasons, and he's said he's never missed his foreskin.

Pelleas

Your DH may have never missed his foreskin but there are groups of people that have.