AIBU? Circumcision?

[Poppygirl96]

Me and my ex have recently split up and we have a 5 month old son. He told me when I was pregnant that he wanted to get our son circumcised due to his religion and that it was really important to him. I was heavily pregnant tired and not really thinking much about it so I blindly agreed. However I have been thinking about it a lot and really don’t want our son to get unnecessarily cut even if it is for religious reasons.

My ex says it’s also to keep him clean but I don’t see the point. We haven’t found anyone to do the surgery as our son was prem so we couldn’t and now there’s COVID-19 so we can’t go now. If I bring it up and go against him, I know my ex will be pissed and it will cause a huge argument especially as it’s so important to him, his mother and his religion.

I don’t want to ruin co-parenting with him and cause issues so I’m not sure what to do/say. AIBU in saying I don’t want to go ahead with it?

A babies foreskin is fused to the head of their penis, removing their foreskin is comparable to removing the skin on their fingers or toes.

Circumcision should be for medical purposes only. If he wants to do it he can get himself circumcised as an adult.

@TerrorWig

@AgeLikeWine FGM entails cutting off the girls clitoris and sewing her labia together. Sometimes using a piece of glass.

I’m no fan of circumcision, I don’t think it should be allowed outside of medical requirements, but it is NOT the same as FGM. You do no favours to the girls completely mutilated by it asserting that it is.

This. ^

I can't believe some people are trying to say FGM on females is the same as male circumcision. And as for the posters saying 'THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE...' FFS people - educate yourselves.

As the pp above said, it's hugely insulting towards girls/women who have had to suffer the hideous monstrosity that is FGM, that often completely mutilates girls genitalia, and sometimes even KILLS them!

People saying the 2 are the same just sickens me tbh. The ignorance on here about FGM is astounding.

@Quickquestion2020 's post at 20.20 is one of the most spectacularly ignorant posts I have seen on MN for along time! Shocking!

As for 'this isn't top trumps' comment someone made earlier. (like one wasn't worse than the other...) Yes it bloody is! FGM on girls is WAY worse than bloody male circumcision. WTF is wrong with some posters on here?! Some of the posts on this thread make for disturbing and worrying reading!

@AgeLikeWine

I have to question the agenda and motivation of those who are so determined to argue that mutilating a helpless little boy’s genitals is somehow different to mutilating a helpless little girl’s.

OMG!

I seriously despair for humanity.

EDUCATE YOURSELF. PLEASE!!!!!!

FGM is wrong. That doesn't make NTMC right.

It's also wrong because unless you live in the US, there's no guarantee that your DS will be having sex in a culture where it is normal IYSWIM.

My father had it done as a baby as he was born in a US army hospital but very few men in rural Wales were like that. He said it really affected how he feels about all that. He is very anti-circumcision.

I agree that both should be outlawed in an ideal world. But I don't think male circumcision (or MGM) will be, or at least not at this point in time, with it being an important part of the Jewish and Islamic faiths. Both are world religions so outlawing MGM will present a real problem for orthodox Jews and Muslims living in this country.

FGM is different, because it isn't required by either the Torah or the Quran, but is a longstanding tradition in many cultures. For that reason, Muslim and Jewish leaders did support it being criminalised. It's already illegal and can be reported to Social Services as a safeguarding issue. Sadly, far too many girls are taken to Pakistan/Afghanistan every year and have it done to them there.

This isn't the case with MGM, although it's encouraging to know that a lot of Jewish families aren't practising it now. I know very little about this, is this something that creates a lot of problems with their families or is this becoming more acceptable?

@AgeLikeWine are you for real!!! It’s absolutely nothing like FGM. I’ve never heard such outrageous nonsense in my entire life.

It's exactly the same as asking the doctors to take a knife to your daughter's labia in my opinion. And I'm sure most doctors would recoil at that. So I'm not sure why they are happy to cut off foreskin.

FGM is very disturbing in that it's deeply misogynistic, as it's specifically done for the purpose of destroying a woman's ability to enjoy sex, so that she'll remain 'pure'. Saying that male circumcision is the same is completely false and displays a shocking level of ignorance.

That isn't to say that male circumcision shouldn't be illegal too. The two issues should be looked at separately without attempts to compare.

These are two completely different surgeries with completely different idea behind them and completely different results.

What's wrong with people

an important part of the Jewish and Islamic faiths. Both are world religions so outlawing MGM will present a real problem for orthodox Jews and Muslims living in this country.

The solution to that problem is simple and obvious. Any young Jewish or Muslim man (or a young man of any other faith, or none) should be free to elect to be circumcised when he turns 18. This could become part of a religious or cultural ceremony for those who wish to do so.

@motherheroic no it’s not you moron. Try reading something about both.

It's like saying to someone "the doctor will amputate that person's toe with nice sharp knife, while I have two dogs here two chew off your legs. It's a same thing. Leg "surgery" innit"

So back to how the OP has a discussion about this with her ex. Are you on reasonable terms with him? Can you have a calm discussion where you suggest you both allow the baby to decide once he grows up? You could point out that the NHS requires consent from both sets of parents for non-therapeutic circumcision and you will not give your consent, and if he tries to get it performed outside a medical setting there would be legal consequences. A private doctor would probably also refuse to carry out the procedure without your consent. Does he have any male family you get on with who could put your point of view?

You don't say how far down the separated route you have gone, but is this worrying you enough that you would only want supervised contact in case your ex tries to get your son circumcised? If so, you should mention it to your solicitor.

Sorry I have no very strong ideas, OP, but I hope you can stay strong for the sake of your little boy. You were right to change your mind and your ex will eventually have to understand your point of view.

am appalled by posters saying male circumcision is the same as fgm
do circumcised men retain sexual function?
do baby boys frequently die as a result? or suffer PTSD?
is their fertility impaired?

there are enough reasons to discourage or even ban circumcision, we don't need to compare it to fgm, it's quite bad enough already

I haven't read the whole thread OP. I am not of a Jewish or Muslim faith but I think MN is not the forum to ask these important questions on.

Please try some place less biased and 'closed circle' on this subject

Of course it’s not as bad but it doesn’t mean they shouldn’t both be outlawed.
We don’t allow sexual harassment to be legal because rape is so much more horrific. They are both against the law because neither is acceptable. Outlawing male circumcision would not in any way detract from how utterly horrific FGM is.

Absolutely not necessary so don't do it!

@AgeLikeWine

It should work like that, but I'm afraid it doesn't! Because Muslims in particular believe that the Quran was dictated to Mohammad directly by Allah and it's also taught in their traditions as well. Going against your religion might sound easy to someone who isn't religious at all, but not when the religion is deeply embedded in your culture.

I'm not speaking about my own experience here, as Christians don't circumcise. It would be interesting to hear some first-hand experience about this.

It's not addressed to anyone @cremuel

It's pointing out the flaw in the argument that most circumcised men don't go on to have problems I.e. some do, and all experience a painful and unnecessary surgery, and then asking a series of questions for those posters advocating for circumcision. I genuinely want to know what are the perceived benefits that outweigh those risks

I'm trying to focus on the issues for this child and this poster as that is what the thread is about and it's getting rather derailed with FGM arguments

In my opinion, male circumcision is horribly cruel unless it’s for medical reasons.

If you teach him to wash properly, he will not be any more unclean than someone that has been circumcised. Follow your instinct and don’t look back!

Another vote for NO to genital mutilation.

My now DH and I argued extensively over this. I removed our son from the hospital before DH had it done. 17.5 years on DS was asked about is and is really glad it wasnt done.
Looking back DH said he was blindly going along with rules as it had always been drummed into him its just what you do. He'd never thought about it or questioned it. Now he realises it's actually pretty stupid. When we had another child 2 years ago, he said it would never cross his mind to ever think of something like that again as in reality its unnecessary and in the realm of things means nothing. The reality of religion is about being a good person, being kind, helping people etc. Not cutying a piece of skin off. That doesn't affect how you behave in life.

Don’t mutilate your child just to keep the peace ffs. I say this as someone raised in a Muslim family that stopped circumcision when the first generation entered the medical profession.