AIBU? Circumcision?

[Poppygirl96]

Me and my ex have recently split up and we have a 5 month old son. He told me when I was pregnant that he wanted to get our son circumcised due to his religion and that it was really important to him. I was heavily pregnant tired and not really thinking much about it so I blindly agreed. However I have been thinking about it a lot and really don’t want our son to get unnecessarily cut even if it is for religious reasons.

My ex says it’s also to keep him clean but I don’t see the point. We haven’t found anyone to do the surgery as our son was prem so we couldn’t and now there’s COVID-19 so we can’t go now. If I bring it up and go against him, I know my ex will be pissed and it will cause a huge argument especially as it’s so important to him, his mother and his religion.

I don’t want to ruin co-parenting with him and cause issues so I’m not sure what to do/say. AIBU in saying I don’t want to go ahead with it?

@Mittens030869 that’s not true either though. Normal muslims are tolerant of non-circumcision, if anything amongst westernised communities there is more shame placed on families that continue the practice than the ones that don’t these days. In my own experience I was asked only once (by one of our less educated family friends) whether we were leaning to circumcise. I said no, there was no point of messing with what god had given at the risk of complications and that was that.

I appreciate that there are less civilised communities out there but it’s offensive to generalise this way, especially when you consider that my family abandoned the practice long before the custom died out in the west. The only pressure I’ve felt in this regard is to abandon the religion that my ancestors have practiced with moral discernment in order to avoid being used as a mouth piece for this kind of shit. If you aren’t Muslim or from a Muslim background yourself I would suggest you stop trying to explain the culture to other people given that it’s just as nuanced as any other.

It's not comparable to high level fgm, no. However, it is comparable to lower level fgm, which can be limited to incising the labia or clitoris. Also, the foreskin can be an important source of sexual sensation for some men.

I can’t believe this absolute nonsense is not considered child abuse.

We used to do a lot of things in the name of religion that have now stopped. I can’t understand why it’s allowed to continue is this alleged civilised country.

You can’t chop the top of your child’s finger off for the sake of it!

Why you would agree to let anyone cut a piece of your child is beyond me

Girls' genitals are damaged by FGM to an incomparably greater degree. Not the same at all, I agree.

It doesn't change the fact that all children should have the right to grow up with intact genitals. Parents should not be allowed to cut part of their son's penis away, thereby permanently damaging his genitals, without good medical reason.

It's not the same, but it's the same type of thing. Slicing flesh off of helpless children to please god.

“ Male circumcision does no harm. FGM does. Male circumcision cuts the foreskin, FGM cuts the clitoris—the two things cut are not even remotely the same. For male circumcision to be equivalent to FGM, the entire tip of the male’s penis would need to be cut off”

F* religion - keep your hands off that wee boy. It is just mutilation.

Not that I am advocating it my DS has not been circumcised but it’s not the same.

FGM and circumcision are different for obvious reasons. What they do share in common is that they are abuse and mutilation of a child.

In a lot of westernized Muslim communities a circumcision in adulthood means more as the suffering is a proper test of faith.

FGM is the equivalent of male castration NOT circumcision, and not a nice medicalised one but the type Chinese kings used to arrange with dogs and shit.

movingoceans Remember when believers used to torture us to death for not believing in their particular god? Hearing 'sky fairy' on social media is not nearly as offensive as that.

pleasepleasepleasehelp

How about you stop trying to derail the thread and stick to the topic?

OP I think you should say to ex you don't agree with circumcision but if your son wants it when he is old enough to decide that's up to him. I know men who have been circumcised and traumatised by it, I don't think its unreasonable at all to not want that for your son.

To people saying circumcision is like FGM please listen to this. It isnt. Which isn't minimising circumcision but there is no comparison

podtail.com/podcast/the-happy-vagina/the-cut/

It's not just the amount of damage that differs in male and female circumcision, it's also the intent of the act.

Male circumcision is not intended to render the boy impotent. Female circumcision strips the girl of any sexual pleasure in all cases, and in extreme cases means sex and childbirth involves being cut open again.

Male circumcision is carried out for religious purposes, and female circumcision is carried out for cultural purposes.

Male circumcision denotes belonging and is done in the belief of better heath for the boy. Female circumcision is done to control and keep girls faithful and obedient.

They are both abhorrent but clearly very different forms of genital mutilation.

Male genial mutilation is no different to the female version

It's entirely different!!

Male circumcision on baby boys - whilst not right at all IMO - is a safe procedure that's done all the time for medical reasons and whilst violates their autonomy, doesn't leave lasting physical damage.

FGM is done purely for the purpose of destroying the enjoyment of sex in girls. If the clitoris isn't removed then the vulva are seen together until marriage, or both. There is no safe way to perform FGM, death is a regular occurrence and if she survives she is scarred for life.

Labia sewn together sorry not vulva

Your ex also has to realise that as dc mother, you have the right to change your mind and refuse to place your child at risk for no medical reason. He can get as angry as he likes but legally this requires your consent.

For future references. These things MUST be discussed before taking implants out and ttc...

My DH (born in a Middle East country to mixed parents) was circumcised - though his DM (the Middle Eastern one!) was also against it.

While MIL's mother and sister were babysitting they took him to the Mosque and had it done without either of his parents knowing or being there.

If I were you I'd never let anybody touch my baby's penis (and I didn't!) but do be careful how you frame it with your ex as he could easily go and get it done on 'his' time.

@Puzzledandpissedoff more annoyed the angry he would be really upset with me and it would make out co parenting really difficult and strained and I don’t want him to make things awkward as I’m waiting for him to buy me out of my share of the house so that I can move on. We were never married but he is on DS birth certificate and DS has his last name

I would rather make co parenting difficult than permanently remove a key part of my child’s body

@GlummyMcGlummerson

Circumcision greatly reduces a man’s sexual pleasure due to the nerve endings removed

It is, by definition, different to FGM, but circumcision is MGM. There is no medical justification for doing in almost all cases. In the very unlikely event that it is recommended by a specialist, then go ahead. Otherwise not.

OP, well the COVID19 issue will run and run for a bit.

But lawyers are still working from home, I think? If the plan is for him to buy you out can you get on with that?

Are you still living in the house with him?

I have just seen from your update that you were NOT married. So surly if he was willing to go against his religion by having a relationship that was clearly sexual and resulted in a child then he can also ignore this part of his religion?

My husband is Muslim, we only have a daughter who is nearly 9.. she likes to wear leggings with a crop top sometimes (not super short but you can see her belly button) my husband said it’s not appropriate as he is Muslim and so is she... he was happy to create a baby out of wedlock (we married when daughter was 2), doesn’t pray, doesn’t fast, knows very little of his religion has consumed alcohol (not for the past 7 years admittedly), never eats pork but will happily eat non halal meat. Therefore my argument is that you can’t pick and choose the parts of religion that suit you and impose the parts you pick on others while doing whatever you want. I have made this Clear to my daughter and she wears what she wants to, if when she is older she wants to become Muslim I will of course support her.

He is a Hypocrite to pick and choose what is easy or pleasurable to him in his religion and ignore the important bits!

Religion is chosen and learned not inherited. If your son chooses to be Muslim he can make the decision on circumcision when he is old enough to understand.