AIBU? Circumcision?

[Poppygirl96]

Me and my ex have recently split up and we have a 5 month old son. He told me when I was pregnant that he wanted to get our son circumcised due to his religion and that it was really important to him. I was heavily pregnant tired and not really thinking much about it so I blindly agreed. However I have been thinking about it a lot and really don’t want our son to get unnecessarily cut even if it is for religious reasons.

My ex says it’s also to keep him clean but I don’t see the point. We haven’t found anyone to do the surgery as our son was prem so we couldn’t and now there’s COVID-19 so we can’t go now. If I bring it up and go against him, I know my ex will be pissed and it will cause a huge argument especially as it’s so important to him, his mother and his religion.

I don’t want to ruin co-parenting with him and cause issues so I’m not sure what to do/say. AIBU in saying I don’t want to go ahead with it?

It should be outlawed for all but essential medical need.

@OmgThereAreNoPlanesAboveMeNow, yes, you are correct. I don’t even know why my post has ‘almost’ in that sentence. FGM categorically always causes horrific pain and infection. I’ve attended a professional safeguarding course on FGM and how to spot girls at risk. It was an utterly horrific and harrowing day and all we were doing was watching, listening and learning.

@TerrorWig o think we basically agree on this issue. We both think all forms of child genital mutilation for non-medical reasons is unacceptable and should be outlawed, so I don’t thing arguing about which form is worse is helpful or gets us anywhere.

MGM is bad. The reasons for it are shit.
FGM is worse. The reasons for it are shittier and misogynistic to boot.

Both are unacceptable and should not be practised.

Say no. You’ve looked into it and decided it should be up to your son when he is old enough to decide if he is believes in whichever Middle Eastern desert god who demands circumcision.

Simples.

@allthepeoplethatcomearound
No disrespect but while I agree that circumcision should not be performed without medical reasons, it is a long way from fgm and the ensuing implications.

And yes, whilst I believe both should be outlawed, I think saying male circumcision is the same as FGM is akin to invoking Godwin’s Law. The argument is lost right there.

It is a decision ONLY your son can make when old enough (bar medical reasons of course).

The procedure gets more painful and at greater risk of infection as they get older. I wouldn't want him to sneak and get it done.

You really need legal advice on this, because you won't be able to stop it, unless something is in place.

My DD's partner is waiting to be circumcised, he in a lot of discomfort. I've known about seven men who've had to have it done as teens or adults. It made sense to do it as a baby, in hot countries, in the past.

Ideally you should talk it out with him, because there might be other things which you object to, but you are equal parents and both went into this knowing that there was a culture clash.

most men who are circumcised live normal lives and have healthy sex lives.

Yes true. Most but not all. Some suffer chronic pain. Infection and scarring and almost all experience a decrease in sensitivity and therefore pleasure. Plus there's the acute pain and trauma of surgery.

Can anyone explain the benefits?Why would anyone take these risks when there are many potential costs and no benefits?

And if it's HIV reduction and cleanliness I think we're all aware that those objectives can be achieved by other means

Yanbu to have decided against it.

However, if the father is on the birth certificate, he can consent to this being carried out without your agreement. Not ideal. But could and does happen.

BTW I was in your position 7 years ago. Initially I agreed but thankfully changed mind after reading about consent. I stood ground and although it caused some resentment from his dad, I never regretted it. I'm not against circumsision as such but it should be only your son's decision when he is old enough.

Everyone comparing some randomer using a blunt dirty blade to mutilate female genitals to a doctor using a sterile knife to mutilate Male genitalia are being a bit dense.
Many many circumcisions are carried out with improper tools and cause incredible pain and even death to the boys forced to undergo it.

What you actually mean is "circumcisions carried out with anaesthetic and clean and proper tools is not as bad as fgm carried out by an untrained person with improper tools."

So. Would it be ok to remove a baby girls labia in hospital to help her keep clean?" If you think no, then it's not ok to do to a boy. Quite simple.

Apart from all the above reasons, I think you will find that most nhs services won't agree to do this on
Non medical grounds anyway, so you would have to go private if both of you were in agreement. As you aren't, it shouldn't be an issue.

Let your child decide when they are old enough to get proper pain relief

Nobody would cut a piece of my child's penis off for no medical reason.

Yabu to still be thinking of allowing a part of your child's body to be removed, to appease your exh.

No OP - please do not do this to your perfect little boy. And you must be vigilant and safeguard him against his father and your mother in law. The thought of this mutliation of a tiny baby breaks my heart.

However if the father is on the birth certificate he can consent to this being carried without your agreement
This is not true. Non - medically indicated infant circumcision requires the consent of both parents in the UK.

OP - you have every right to change your mind about this. Your son has a perfectly healthy functioning foreskin - it doesn't need removing unnecessarily when he can't consent. Medical reasons are different.

Is your ex married to you? If not, is he on your son's birth certificate?

Whether he's on the BC or not, I'd be seeking legal advice on your rights here - in terms of whether you can prevent ex getting your son circumcised without your consent. I think he can't do it through legitimate channels without your consent as well, but if he sneaks off and gets it done by someone not authorised to carry it out I'd want to know my rights to sue etc. in that situation.

Good advice above OP.

According to my understanding of this document:

www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-support/ethics/children-and-young-people/non-therapeutic-male-circumcision-toolkit

To be within the law, doctors performing non-therapeutic male circumcision must satisfy themselves that both parents, where there are two parents, consent to the procedure. It's on card 7, under 'consent'.

most men who are circumcised live normal lives and have healthy sex lives.

*Yes true. Most but not all. Some suffer chronic pain. Infection and scarring and almost all experience a decrease in sensitivity and therefore pleasure. Plus there's the acute pain and trauma of surgery.

Can anyone explain the benefits?Why would anyone take these risks when there are many potential costs and no benefits?*

I don’t know if that’s addressed to me, but I’m not claiming there are benefits to men in circumcision unless it is medically indicated, in which case there are (which is of course never the case with FGM).

My point was that long term pain and discomfort is a rare and unintentional side effect of circumcision , and one that exists for pretty much any surgical procedure, whereas it is the entire point of FGM.

Sorry, the bold got a bit screwed up there.

The NHS won't do it for non medical reasons.
My son had to have a circumcision age 10 due to a medical condition called BXO it was horrific and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. The procedure was horrid as was the recovery. He turns 18 tomorrow and still suffers with over sensitivity.

@Quickquestion2020

Agreed.

I have to question the agenda and motivation of those who are so determined to argue that mutilating a helpless little boy’s genitals is somehow different to mutilating a helpless little girl’s.

Both are backward, both are barbaric and both should be banned. Sadly, for reasons entirely unrelated to child welfare, only one is (quite rightly) banned.