AIBU? Circumcision?

[Poppygirl96]

Me and my ex have recently split up and we have a 5 month old son. He told me when I was pregnant that he wanted to get our son circumcised due to his religion and that it was really important to him. I was heavily pregnant tired and not really thinking much about it so I blindly agreed. However I have been thinking about it a lot and really don’t want our son to get unnecessarily cut even if it is for religious reasons.

My ex says it’s also to keep him clean but I don’t see the point. We haven’t found anyone to do the surgery as our son was prem so we couldn’t and now there’s COVID-19 so we can’t go now. If I bring it up and go against him, I know my ex will be pissed and it will cause a huge argument especially as it’s so important to him, his mother and his religion.

I don’t want to ruin co-parenting with him and cause issues so I’m not sure what to do/say. AIBU in saying I don’t want to go ahead with it?

LesLavandes mumsnet is full of parents and you think they are the wrong people to ask regarding the welfare of a child? Who did you have in mind to ask? I'd really like to know.

@Mittens030869 that’s quite patronising, most Muslims aren’t complete idiots. There is a lot of vile shit in the Koran, it doesn’t mean that should blindly do it because it was supposedly dictated by god a millennium ago, especially when you look at how contradictory the Koran is it’s ridiculous to blindly follow what is written (even using the traditional repeal method of interpretation).

AgeLikeWine Your username suggests you must be very old and have backward views. FGM is nothing like male circumcision. AIBU is not the kindest of places to seek advice... especially since the majority of posters of Mumsnetters are High-Middle Class and are of European Heritage. OP is better off moving her post onto another board where she would get rational pro and against views regarding male circumcision. Hysterically crying "FGM" is not helping the OP in the slightest.

OP, this is the first of many times in your child's life, that you will have to stand firm and defend him, even if you hate confrontation. You cannot let him down at this first, incredibly important opportunity to fight for his best interests.

Male circumcision is not as horrific as FGM, but it IS unnecessary mutilation, and therefore completely unacceptable. You know it is wrong. Stand firm.

*SIGH. Circumcision on males is NOT the same as FGM on females. Why do people always say this on these threads?

They are 2 completely different procedures!*

They both involve mutilating a child's genitals. I've never understood why it's deemed acceptable for males.

OP you know it's wrong. If your child wants the procedure when he's older, he should have the right to make that choice.

There have been some good suggestions to how the OP can approach the subject with her ex-partner but a simple conversation is a good place to start. Is your partner aware that you've changed your mind OP? If not, make him aware that you don't want this done and give your reasons. You can pull the legal restrictions out of the bag when you get his reaction to this.

As for the Male vs Female circumcision debate, aside from the pain, Female circumcision is removing the girl's cliterous whereas male circumcision is not done with the intention to make the male impotent and unable to experience sexual pleasure. That's why the procedure, although still genital mutilation, is different. The male equivalent to FGM would involve removing the head (glans) of the penis, not the foreskin.

Tell him you are really grateful for bringing this up. In your religion when a man impregnates a woman who is not his wife or who fails to maintain their relationship for a year and day after the birth, then he shall be castrated so he may not make the same mistake again and can focus his energies on the child.

Your religion is really important to you right ?

@StillWeRise all of the things you mentioned do occur in cases of Male mutilation. I’m not sure why you thought they didn’t. If they didn’t occur I doubt people would feel so strongly about it.

@movingoceans yes, because western middle classes are so likely to be backwards...

I’m against both and agree that things shouldn’t be done to humans in the name of religion/culture whatever. But no way is male circumcision comparable to FGM. For a start, circumcised males lead normal sex lives (some say better) - FGM removes the clitoris, sometimes the external labia and the vaginal opening may be sown up only to be forcibly ripped open when the male wants sex. Girls can be left with permanent fistula and renal damage owing to chronic UTI. They may not be able to pass urine normally or end up with infection and sepsis owing to unhygienic mutilation and later, a build up of menstrual blood which cannot leave the body if stitched up too tightly. Some will die as a direct result of FGM or the subsequent sequelae. It is truly one of the most abhorrent acts of violence perpetrated against girls and young women. To compare with removal of the foreskin is an insult to those who have suffered. Shame on those who do not acknowledge this or worse, try to deny it.

It's not his penis, it's his son's! Tell him to mind his own business.

@Reginabambina

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound patronising. I was explaining the history, and that view is still around, hence you get young Muslims thinking they'll go to Paradise if they blow themselves up o a bus or tube train and take a group of infidels with them.

For those who aren't tied to that literalist belief about the Quran, cultural pressures involving issues of shame if you go against the rules, it's hard to see male circumcision anytime soon.

You get that type of literalism in Christianity, too, so it's not just Islam by any means. Just not about male circumcision, instead about teaching that the Earth is only 6,000 years old and opposing schools teaching evolution.

It's hard to see male circumcision banned anytime soon, that was supposed to say.

Reginabambina OP is going to get a biased opinion on Mumsnet due to the majority of the demographic on here (white, middle class). I'm sorry to say, but some European- white middle class families tend to stick to people who are similar to them... and do not know a huge deal of people who are of different nationalities and display naivety when it comes to other nationalities, cultures, traditions etc.. (reading about it on the internet...visiting X amount of countries do not mean shit).

Calling someone else's religion "sky fairy", which is commented on here, is purely offensive. I am not religious in the slightest, but I have many friends who believe in many different things and no way would I insult them and call their God a "sky fairy". This just proves the point I made above.

@movingoceans There are certainly people whose views on the subject of child genital mutilation are ‘backward’, but that certainly does not include those of us arguing that it should be banned.

Quite the opposite, in fact....

Unless there is a medical need for a circumcision then its barbaric and mutilation

@movingoceans I cannot see any tradition as something to be admired or respected that involves taking sharp objects to babies genitals.

What the fuck goes through the mind of the person that does it - "Yep, this is what God put me on the earth for - cutting pieces of the utterly defenseless."

"What do you want to do when you grow up Timmy ?"
"Well, I want to cut babies foreskins off"

"Wow, that's a great career choice, you will be highly respected"

Erm I don't think it's the same as fgm but I wouldn't put my baby through any unnecessary surgery especially in the current situation.

Doggybiccys, I completely agree.

This is one of the many times that you will need to stand up for your son. I would actually consider asking a solicitor to draft a letter to say that you do not consent to religious/cultural circumcision under any circumstances. You might consider talking to the health visitor or GP with him present.

Permanently removing some of your baby's genitals is a big deal. Don't let him do it. There should be no unsupervised access if there is a danger of him going behind your back. At 18, your son will be perfectly capable of making decisions about his penis for himself.

Be confident in your decision. He might be angry. Tough.

I sincerely hope that one day @MNHQ take a stand against posters comparing male and female circumcision because I'm sick of seeing this claim.

@Doggybiccys excellent post.

@JosieJosie1

I agree with you!

@JosieJosie1

I agree with you!

@Doggybiccys

I’m against both and agree that things shouldn’t be done to humans in the name of religion/culture whatever. But no way is male circumcision comparable to FGM. For a start, circumcised males lead normal sex lives (some say better) - FGM removes the clitoris, sometimes the external labia and the vaginal opening may be sown up only to be forcibly ripped open when the male wants sex.

Girls can be left with permanent fistula and renal damage owing to chronic UTI. They may not be able to pass urine normally or end up with infection and sepsis owing to unhygienic mutilation and later, a build up of menstrual blood which cannot leave the body if stitched up too tightly. Some will die as a direct result of FGM or the subsequent sequelae.

It is truly one of the most abhorrent acts of violence perpetrated against girls and young women. To compare with removal of the foreskin is an insult to those who have suffered. Shame on those who do not acknowledge this or worse, try to deny it.

Amen to this.

It's breathtakingly ignorant and offensive to say FGM in females, is the same as circumcision in males.

As a pp ( @theInebriati ) said ...

I sincerely hope that one day @MNHQ* take a stand against posters comparing male and female circumcision because I'm sick of seeing this claim..........

Amen to this too.

It's disgusting to claim that they are the same ... Utterly disgusting.