WWYD? Grandad’s war record

[TrickyGrandad]

As a part of my son’s work sent home from school, there’s an investigation project into relatives experience of war, rationing, evacuation, service, that sort of thing.

WWYD if you knew that Grandad’s war record was highly controversial? My child never met this Grandad but knows where he fits in the family tree, obviously.

Would you use this as a learning experience OR keep it under wraps for when they’re older. Safe to say this isn’t an aspect of war that school are exploring.

I made the mistake of announcing I had one dgf in the sas and one in the ss when at school...

Leave it for now. I didn't understand the enormity of what I was saying, I just thought I was cool 🙈

Ancestors did what they did, and however we disapprove of their choices we can't change them. We recently discovered that direct ancestor was a prostitute in the last part of the 19th century. Abandoned by husband, five kids. They went into a workhouse for a while but it seems a life on the streets was preferable. She did what she had to do. Apparently reformed later in life and did good works.

I wonder if the school even thought that there might be non-British relatives involved, so thought that it would all be stories of rationing, evacuation, bombing etc.

That’s fascinating and definitely worth sharing.
Year 6 is 11 (sorry I’m Scottish)? I don’t think that’s too young for him to find out and you can help him research, but I agree I wouldn’t tell school.

I’m struggling to understand why someone wouldn’t tell their 11 this information - I understand why you wouldn’t want it leaving the family. This is the perfect time for your son to research the 2nd world war.

The Second World War wasn’t about killing Jews. If the U.K. was so bothered about the holocaust we would have allowed more Jewish refugees But we didn’t.

Everything about war is evil, but those who aren’t the political leaders don’t get much choice to express political freedom.

All of my grandfathers and those before were in the British army and more than likely killed someone. They’re not evil but that’s war.

I know someone who was tortured during the Northern Ireland troubles - told his family were dead, his whole down had been bombed, told him if he moved his arms down the cable wrapped around him would electrocute him to death, an in-depth account of his younger sister being raped etc etc etc - the reason he couldn’t tell them any info was because he was innocent. Last time I checked people still spoke of grandads being in N.I. with no shame - hey people still sing ‘rule Britannia’ when we’ve raped, starved, enslaved and ripped apart countries/cultures. Children need to understand what has really happened in wars/past for them to really understand hate/racism/poverty etc.

What about grandma's war? The home front - rationing, not knowing if dh /ds was alive or not, dealing with the bombing etc etc

but the fact is a lot of English people will have ancestors who did quite questionable things in the colonies - and there seems to be very little appetite for examining that history critically

Absolutely and this should also be acknowledged and openly discussed among older children and adults. 11 is abit young, though.

Cohle just to be absolutely clear, yes, absolutely there is no alternative narrative of the Holocaust.

I think the nuanced comment comes from the poor way in which war history is handled in England. We (the English) are without fail, the goodies, the victors, and nothing like that nasty Nazism could ever have happened here etc etc. And that gives an infinitely superior version of the War when compared to the countries who were occupied. Nazism was and is utterly evil. The hard part is coming to terms with the fact that ordinary people went along with it.

My grandad ended up in this country because his U-boat was only one of two captured during the Second World War. He was a POW working on farms and then stayed because he was a displaced person (Sudetendeutscher).

We knew this, he was only in his seventies when we were at primary school. We had his (obviously German) surname. Most kids found it fascinating. My brother was asked to introduce himself to his form at high school with an interesting fact and decided to use "In the war my grandad was probably trying to kill most of your grandads". He didn't get bullied for it and it was quoted by his best man at his wedding.

Seriously, say he was a German, in the German army (or whatever). Most year 6's will probably enjoy hearing about it. Even my dad (born in '58) wasn't bullied for having a German father. He just had to play the baddies all the time because he could do a really good German accent.

The only thing I'd worry about is any kids with rabid brexiter parents. My husband is coincidentally also German and we have had some comments and looks when he speaks German to our daughter. So if you know there are any children likely to pick on him from that angle that's the only reason to keep quiet.

My parents were emigrants from a country with a terrible civil war. They were on the right side of history, but unfortunately one of my grandparents was definitely on the wrong side.
Both DD and DS know this, but also know to keep it quiet, especially as we live in that country now.

Even in the UK I kept it quiet. Honestly, you have done nothing wrong, but I still wouldn't mention it. It's too recent.

I sometimes wonder how well schools think through this type of homework.
"Interview granny about her childhood"...yeah, because no-one grew up fearing Friday wages day and their drunkard father coming home, did they?

I think Y6 is too old to comprehend the implications of having a senior nazi in the family tree. Just talk about the other branch of the family.

We have similar though, in our family, one member was heavily involved in organised crime, and had their life cut short in a brutal murder.

Ohh ffs. DC had two great grandfathers on Ex's side of the family. One fought in WWI, and was then part of the Home Guard in WWII. The other fought for Germany & then came to the UK as a refugee.

My DC know the full history of them both. We talk about it, we make jokes about it ('Great-Grandad, the Nazi one, not the RAF one'), and it is fascinating for them and for their friends. They knew their 'Nazi Grandad' as we call him, and they understand he did what he did because he had to. It's really important not to deny that part of history and that normal, ordinary people were involved in something so terrible.

It's only if you attach some kind of shame to it that other kids will see it as something 'bad'.

As an ex teacher, I woudl say - keep this under wraps at this point.

BUT your parents (or parents in law) were obviously German. This is a great moment to talk about both sides.

I remember learning about WW2 and our history teacher telling us how many Germans died, and how beautiful Dresden was before is was bombed ot smithereens etc etc.

I great moment to see that wars have 2 sides.

I'd want to protect my son from any possible fallout from his peers, so I wouldn't tell him until he was old enough to appreciate why it's not talked about in the family, IYSWIM.

In your shoes I would say nothing. You may want to tell him in the future but not now. My ddad used to help people looking into their family tree and he always warned them that they might well find out something they would rather not know, and some did.
Your DS is very young and doesn’t need to know this information at the moment,and his school certainly does need to know. Use the other grandparents in the project.

Why would you want to share this with a child?
His being a high ranking Nazi is very different to a German soldier who was likely conscripted.
I wouldn't want to think about what he had to do to get to that "high rank" tbh

I get the impression his teacher didn’t think this through before the homework was set, and there’s absolutely an assumption that all the relatives were either British or colonial.

We can quite easily do the other branches of the family, but this hangs like a ghost. It has made it a lot more “real” for me, but then I’m old enough to process it properly.

People in the UK went along with black shirt bully boy Oswald Mosley as well.
And maybe lightheartedly, there are people who vote Tory....

History is fascinating, but written by the winners.
Your family history isn’t for public consumption while your kids are at such a young age.

By all means do the research yourself and involve your kids in their heritage when they’re older.

my dd had to research family history and WW1 when we had the centernary. She was about 7.

My mum showed her old, old photos of her great granddad and her great great granddad. She told her stories that her dad had told her about the war.
Together they made a family tree which she was amazed by, these old black and white photos, and then their kids and then her Granny and then me and then her, all in photos.

It wa sone of her prized possessions for ages. We also have a WW1 bayonet blade, which we took in and showed to the class.

However we didn't tell her the stories he told from when he was a POW. he spoke German and was used as a translator, in the operating theatre, during amputations. He was 18. there was no anasthetic. he was traumatised for life

Sadeyedladyofthelowlandsea “ They knew their 'Nazi Grandad' as we call him, and they understand he did what he did because he had to. It's really important not to deny that part of history and that normal, ordinary people were involved in something so terrible.

It's only if you attach some kind of shame to it that other kids will see it as something 'bad'.”

Maybe that’s the difference then. Our Nazi grandad absolutely chose this, he wasn’t conscripted, he joined up when his home country was being targeted for occupation and then became part of the occupying force, at a senior level. He wasn’t German.

Y6 seems a bit young to reveal this, particularly if other children had grandparents who suffered at the hands of the Nazis.

I think we’ll keep this quiet until he is older. I think being at home has given us (his parents) more time to process what we’ll say when the time comes, but the time isn’t now.

I think you say it yourself, TrickyGrandad - you are old enough to process it properly, your DS isn't yet.

Umm, controversial is not a synonym for Nazi, there isn't a lot of dispute about what Nazis are like

Midlifecrash - how would you like me to phrase it?