WWYD? Grandad’s war record

[TrickyGrandad]

As a part of my son’s work sent home from school, there’s an investigation project into relatives experience of war, rationing, evacuation, service, that sort of thing.

WWYD if you knew that Grandad’s war record was highly controversial? My child never met this Grandad but knows where he fits in the family tree, obviously.

Would you use this as a learning experience OR keep it under wraps for when they’re older. Safe to say this isn’t an aspect of war that school are exploring.

This thread also shows up how we still have not forgiven anyone we fought against in ww2. If DC get abuse because of a great grandfather they didn’t know and couldn’t influence, what does that tell us about society?

My friends German grandad was a soldier in WWII. He goes into local schools (including where his grandson is in Y6) to talk about his role.

Plenty of people had controversial roles during the second world war. A lot were Nazis, voluntarily, because Hitler was popular. It wasn't until much later they realised what the Nazis had done!

Fascism was popular all over the place, we had our own home grown Oswald Mosely here in England; a couple of Prince Philip's sisters (Earl Mountbatten's nieces), were married to Nazis but they didn't remain fascist. One died, Mountbatten took schoolboy Philip to the funeral of his sister and her husband and there were swastikas everywhere!

What seems glaringly obvious to us now was not so then. Hindsight and all that.

Your child is not responsible for decisions made by a man in the 1930s and everyone will know that. There will certainly be other family members whose story is more straightforward so it will balance out somewhat.

Don't whitewash it but you don't have to tell everything if you don't feel it is appropriate at the moment.

• sorry - his great grandson is in year 6.

@GrainOfSalt

I think there's a difference between being a regular solider and a "high-ranking Nazi" though. It suggests that he ordered/supervised some pretty nasty things...and he chose to join the regime.

Again, a discussion for an older child.

Zilla, Waffen SS.

Definitely do not tell himuntil he's at least 21 (as it's an IL it sounds like it should be up to your DH to tell him anyway). If he asks as an adult then DH can tell him.

If you tell him now he will DEFINITELY get bullied.

I'm lucky that my family are on the "right" side of history and mostly did boring back ground type jobs anyway.

Then under wraps for me, OP. Good job your son has a loving parent looking out for him.

Quoting my great grandmother when she refused to cheer a Luftwaffe plane being shot down: "He's still someone's son".

There's always going to be someone on the "wrong" side in any war and good people can find themselves entangled in bad things.

It would be interesting to look at how he got involved - maybe he was in too deep when he realised the Nazi ideology was evil?
Many Germans supported Hitler at the start - he brought jobs and prosperity when they had had none - he was a great orator and it's easy with hindsight to see how those people could be persuaded. But later many turned against him when his motives became clear.

Nazi or just German? There is a difference although some might argue it's like virtue amongst thieves.

Yes but he might have been in logistics, training or not involved in anything directly. Not every single person was responsible for death and destruction. High ranking might mean deporting Jews and Roma but it might be rather mundane. The issue of what he did and what he believed should be explained later in DCs life. Whenever appropriate. But if it was logistics or politics at a low level (Nazis were politicians) it may not be too upsetting. We use the word “Nazi” and always think of horrific death camps but that was not the job of everyone.

Grandad - can I ask how you found the information? how/where did you research?

Really? German Jews were also German citizens.

I understand to an extent.

My grandad was a rear gunner in Bomber Command. There was for many years a huge stigma attached to those who performed that duty. I was never told the specifics just that grandad was in the RAF during the war. I’m not sure I would have understood had I been told the truth at that age. He never once spoke of the war or flew again.

I think a brief explanation without much detail would suffice. The subject would be better broached in a few years.

I'm going to have to disagree that there are "multiple narratives" about the Holocaust.

But there are some very complicated narratives about the Holocaust. My MiL was a "hidden child" in Germany during the Holocaust. She was Jewish. Her family mostly were killed but she was given false papers and taken in by neighbours. The man who became her "father" and who my DH still refers to as his grandfather was a low ranking Nazi official, who then joined the army and was killed in action. We presume he wasn't a true believer, as he and his wife risked their lives to hide a Jewish child. But he was undoubtedly a party member.

OP - keep it quiet for now. DH used to get teased at school for being a Nazi, just because he is half German. Nevermind that he is half German Jewish. Kids aren't great with nuance.

@trickygrandad given the exact details, id keep this completely private. This is something for DS to process when he's an adult, not 10-11 years old

He wasn’t German.

He chose Nazism as an ideology, as did his wife (Grandma, much beloved) and his children were involved in the country’s equivalent of the Hitler youth.

Another relative had his war record pulled from The Hague. He was tried and imprisoned after the war, as was Granny.

I had a German tutor who was quite candid about her father being in the Party. He was a professional and it was what was needed to get work, stay employed and off the radar of anyone mean minded.

She was very matter of fact about it as she saw it as a survival technique - one that wasn't always successful - to keep out of the camps.

I wouldn't tell him. Some kids in my DD's Y4 (or Y5 maybe) class made a German classmate cry after they did a history lesson.

Don't hide the information from your child.

We have terrorists, rapists, suicides and children given up for adoption in our family tree. When these things come up, I explain. These things cause fewer problems when they are explained.

Given your updates I can’t imagine why you are thinking of telling your child.

I wouldn't. We have some controversial grandparent political affiliation (not nazi) in a family too and I was told as an adult. Can't imagine how my childhood would be if people knew. I would probably spend most of it being bullied

Lots of Jewish and German people that came here changed their names to avoid bullying and worse. We were not always the most welcoming society! Michael Howard was born Michael Hecht for example.

This is a very interesting thread, thanks.

As AllInclusive321 says, the only reason that the English were always the goodies is because they/you always won.

I met a man in my youth who was a squaddie in the Pacific Islands during the war and he told me that the British army was every bit as bad as the Japanese (who were even badder than the Germans).

Still it is interesting to have such a person on the family tree. It must have affected the psychological well-being of his children and, to a lesser extent, his grandchild.

Why deny a heritage no matter how grim it may be? Does it make your dc a bad kid? Absolutely not. If anything it shows that good can come out of evil.