WWYD? Grandad’s war record

[TrickyGrandad]

As a part of my son’s work sent home from school, there’s an investigation project into relatives experience of war, rationing, evacuation, service, that sort of thing.

WWYD if you knew that Grandad’s war record was highly controversial? My child never met this Grandad but knows where he fits in the family tree, obviously.

Would you use this as a learning experience OR keep it under wraps for when they’re older. Safe to say this isn’t an aspect of war that school are exploring.

I think OP to keep this skeleton firmly in the closet until your son is over 20 or so.

Have you ever watched Who Fo You Think You Are? Many adults find it very difficult if they find out something like this. I certainly wouldn’t be telling an 11 year old who then had to discuss it with school.

I would tell him.

I am Ashkenazi Jewish on my dad's side, and my mum is part German. So some of her relatives would have collaborated in murdering some of his relatives. That is part of my identity, and I have a right to know it (and 11 is not too young for that).

It's important not to whitewash history, and pretend nobody (or at least nobody who seems real; just these mythical Nazis) was the bad guy. If his fellow students only have stories of rationing to tell, what happens to the rest of the story?

@lakeswimmer - it is just possible I guess but very, very unlikely that someone whose father was in their 30s during WWII has a 10 year old child.

Anyway, as Cohle says, no one should quibble about the thread title because it's a mere trifle.

I think the way kids are taught about WW2 in this country is pretty terrible . My primary aged DS thinks all children went to the countryside, milked cows and scrumped for apples. I’ve no doubt that’s what your DS teacher wants to hear about.

I wouldn’t tell an 11 yo his great grandfather had been Waffen-SS. No way. I can’t see how you could contextualise it in a way that could make it okay for him. Wait until he is much older. And besides as a pp said, it’s really not what the teacher wants anyway.

Well at primary school, there’s not a lot of depth to history. It’s chunks DC can understand. So studying all the nuances just won’t happen. They are probably doing war time life in the uk. The home front. The school thinks it’s a good idea to look at this through the prism of family. So, find uk family that was here and experienced the hardships imposed by war. That’s really what the homework is about. It’s not about a great grandparent who made the the wrong choice.

@trickygrandad - pretty much exactly the same as 'Nazi Grandad' - he wasn't conscripted either, he chose to join the German army because his country was invaded by Russia. He didn't have Nazi sympathies, and barely spoke of his experiences, because he was ashamed he'd fought for them.

It's obviously your choice - but do you think it might help children understand why things aren't always so clear cut? I really hope I don't sound patronising, but explaining to my DC that 'Nazi Grandad' wasn't a monster, he was still their great-grandad, whom they utterly adored, he did what he thought was right at the time. It made it more human for them. He saw what he did as protecting his country, not allying himself to a certain ideology.

I should also add that this was all kept from his children (DC's GPs). They just thought he was a refugee, so when all of this came out, they really struggled to think of their dad as a soldier.

It doesn't have to be part of the school project, obviously, but maybe introduce your DC to the idea that family history isn't so straightforward as Blitz spirit and rationing? There are always nuances.

@TrickyGrandad

My husband’s gran was German and Nazi. He wrote an essay on her in high school explaining why she was a Nazi, her reasons and her memories of Germany at that time in the lead up to WW2, throughout and its aftermath including life under Hitler. My MIL read the essay (it was her MIL who was the Nazi) and was happy for him to submit it. She’s a well educated and intelligent woman and made sure there were nothing anti Semitic and it had no sympathetic leanings. Just a factual account and my teenage husband’s critical thoughts.

The school blew up. They kept the essay and I’ve read it. It’s a great piece of work from a teenager and it’s a shame the school reacted so badly.

So I think you’re best to say nothing just now

Keep it age-appropriate, focusing on another grandparent if possible. What about the grandmothers? Land Army? Rationing? Queueing? Black market?

After the project is complete would be the time to tell him about the diversity of his background, in as positive a way as possible. And always age-appropriate. Tricky subject, but important.

Make something up.

My 4 year old has a granddad who fought in the war. He would be 97 if he were still alive. She has an older dad, whose own dad was old when he had him. Her grandparents on her dad’s side were the same age as her great grandparents on my side.

OP I definitely wouldn’t tell him at this age. Focus on anyone else in the family who has a more conventional story. If there is nobody, can you ask an elderly neighbour for stories instead?

My husband has an uncle who is no longer alive who was in the SS
It was a source of shame for the family.
It's a hard one. Kids are inquisitive. I would tell him but maybe not advise him to make it public knowledge

A funnier (stupid) wartime story from my Dad’s rural Australian town... My Dad was born in 1941 and lived in a town famed at the time for producing wool. During the war, this was almost exclusively used for making uniforms fo Aussie and British troops, so it felt more self-important than usual. The idiot mayor had identical twin sons the same age as my Dad and obviously wanted to keep both of his bases covered, so he named them Adolf and Winston. Can you imagine going through school straight after the war called Adolf? IN AUSTRALIA???

most Brits don't really understand what was going on in Poland/Czech/former Yugoslavia

I thought I knew a bit about WW2, until I happened to be reading about the destruction of Warsaw and what the Nazis had planned for Poland. They were basically planning to do much the same to the rest of the Poles as they had done to the Jews, but they lost the war before they got around to it. I had had no idea about any of that.

Use the other granddad's record?

@lakeswimmer For those who want to define anyone who wore a Nazi uniform as being a hideous monster - that's also completely unrealistic and wrong. People who fought for the Germans would have been ordinary people who had no choice about joining up or who though it was a good idea - just as soldiers on the other side did. Both sides were subject to propaganda

Sorry no. I agree insofar as members of the German Army Navy or Air Force were concerned, but to join the Party and in particular the SS was a very different matter.

Can you imagine going through school straight after the war called Adolf? IN AUSTRALIA???

On the plus side, Aussies shorten everything so I guess he got a nickname pretty quickly. Adie or A.D. perhaps?

He was called Dolf, and was by far the cooler of the twins. (Winston was a sap who very much took after his dear Dad, if I’m right!) 🤣

I think it depends on what your DS already knows and on what his class know about him.
I've taught WW2 a few times now. My classes know that I'm originally from Germany. I've usually told them about my grandad, who fought in the war. And yes, he fought for Germany because he was German. However, his story is very different. He wasn't a high ranking officer. He was an 18one-year-old, who had to go off and support the war effort. He was captured less than a year later and taken to a POW camp in the US, where he stayed for a few years. He then got moved tona camp near York where he was the only prisoner, which seems really weird. They dressed him up in a British uniform and took him out to the cinema. He died a few years ago but he had really found memories of the time, in as much as you can have them under the circumstances. He's the most lovely person I have ever met and was really happy when I got together with DH - the Tommy. :D
In our cases it gave the kids a different perspective and I thought that was important. However, I was the teacher...so no bullying or rudeness after.

Yes, keep it quiet. In year 6, the historical debate will be very limited, and knowing his grandfather was part of the evil Axis could be very upsetting for him, and difficult to handle in class.

If you do decide to tell him, definitely speak to the class teacher and explain as I expect a teacher would want a little time to prepare. My brother lives in Germany. Really I don’t think there is much discussion of what grandparents did in the war. It is too hard for many adults to cope with, let alone kids.

I agree insofar as members of the German Army Navy or Air Force were concerned, but to join the Party and in particular the SS was a very different matter.

In this case, he wasn't German; he actively chose to join the Occupying Army. I think we have seen clues to his motivation - he was an ordinary bloke whose career appeared to be going nowhere, so joining the Army with food and uniform provided and which gave him some status in life could seem attractive. Who knows if he then regretted it, but found he was in too deep? This is something that OP's family and the DS could explore together in future.

It highlights the moral dilemmas and choices that most of us have been fortunate to escape having to make.

Justilou, my mind is spinning, was Dolph Lundren originally named Adolph? I'm not the most imaginative when it comes to names, I didn't link Liam and William.

Dolph Lungdren was originally called Hans apparently and Dolph is a family name. So says my brief Google.

No Dolph Lundgren was born as Hanns Lundgren in Sweden. I just googled him, he's a bit of a clever cloggs too with a masters in chemical engineering.

Thanks, Yippee, I'd just never even linked Adolf and Dolph in my unimaginative mind.