WWYD? Grandad’s war record

[TrickyGrandad]

As a part of my son’s work sent home from school, there’s an investigation project into relatives experience of war, rationing, evacuation, service, that sort of thing.

WWYD if you knew that Grandad’s war record was highly controversial? My child never met this Grandad but knows where he fits in the family tree, obviously.

Would you use this as a learning experience OR keep it under wraps for when they’re older. Safe to say this isn’t an aspect of war that school are exploring.

My son's great-grandfather was a (low ranking) Nazi. He was a pow held by the British. I discussed this with him in Y6 and he was open at school about it. He was never bullied. It brought out a discussion in class about how my son's best friend in class is Jewish and what happens to his family. It's so important for children to learn the truth. We are not the Sims of our fathers. There's a problem with everyone pretending their families behaved heroically in the war.
If you are worried, talk to the teacher about it. But this is a great opportunity for learning and understanding for your child and the rest of the class.

*sins

It's not controversy, is it, though? There is no controversy at all. Nazism was evil. I don't think we need the details about what he did either. This doesn't feel totally respectful to me.

You don't sound like you've worked this through properly in your own head, let alone expect your child to do so. I'd be looking at the work Germans have done on coming to terms with their collective past. They have given this great thought and there will be guidance out there about when and how you talk to children about it.

I second you not to share. I'm of German descent on DM's side. No controversy but my DC in particular got called Nazis when other people knew even though my DGGF was a British PoW at Ally Pally as he'd come to England at the turn of the 20th century but couldn't afford to be naturalised.

I would definitely talk about it with your child and explore whether they want to communicate it in their school project or not, or whether they would prefer to use another grandparent, but talk with you about what actually happened and what their great-grandfather believed and did. It might be interesting for him/her to read/explore the ways in which the children, grandchildren, great grandchildren of Nazis have been taught about/ have come to terms with their family/collective past.

But I do think that there's a very black and white approach to the history of WW2 in particular in England (assuming that's where you are). In Ireland, we have to be far more nuanced about early 20thc history, as, for instance, like a lot of people, I have ancestors who fought in the British army in WWI and ancestors who fought against the British army in the 1916 Rising, ditto the war of independence, and family on both sides during the civil war -- all of which are being commemorated in recent years, not without controversy, because of it being the centenaries. But it does mean that people are forced to recognise that there are multiple narratives.

What a fascinating piece of family history. I would be all over this (major WWII buff) but I don't think I would give that information to the school.

I'd probaby wait to tell your DS until he's studying it at secondary level. I think it would be a lot for him to cope with, presuming he actually knows all of the history of what happened in the war in the first place

Unless you want your child bullied,do not tell him anything until he is out of school.

The school don't need to know this, or anyone else outside of your immediate family. This is something you can discuss with your son when he is older.

My mum is 95 and worked as a telephone operator and also on farming camps during the war, DS is in year 8

There's definitely an age appropriate conversation you can have but I would not share this with school (or a filtered version of it).

I've got friends who have similar histories and it's the discussion their parents had with them that has shaped how they handle and confront their past.

I think whether or not you share this with the teacher is irrelevant and your choice. It won’t be shared in class as there are no classes. Dh’s grandma (long since died) was young during the war and in occupied France. She was probably a pretty young teen. But her memories were not negative of them at all.

Definitely don't go into this detail at this time. Kids don't have the mental processing to deal with news like this. The child will have numerous other ancestors from the same period - hopefully at least one of them will have some history recorded about them which can be used.

Do mention in passing that this other grandpa wasn't a nice man, and did some bad things. Do not be drawn into detailing any clues as to what they did. When your child is much much older you can and should tell all, so it would be better for them to have been forewarned.

But it does mean that people are forced to recognise that there are multiple narratives.

I'm going to have to disagree that there are "multiple narratives" about the Holocaust.

I'm usually all for explaining the truth to children in an age-appropriate way but I would make an exception here given the information and his age and vaguely plead ignorance of that particular branch of the tree for now. Not because I think it reflects on you or your son in slightest way but to shield him from potential cruelty of children and ignorant parents before he could handle it and fully understand that it really has no bearing on him at all and he has no need to bear any shame.

I think it will be a fascinating thing to discuss with him when he's older, though, in the context of judging people unfairly by their heritage, sins of the fathers etc. as well as putting a complicated human face to terrible, well known historic crimes.

I hope this doesn't weigh on you otherwise, OP.

My grandparents were European, and my grandmother was in her late teens in Nazi-occupied Austria. I don’t know very much about her family and experience of WW2 other than it being too distressing for her to talk about. A Jewish friend upon learning that my grandmother was Austrian asked directly if they were Nazis/Nazi sympathisers; I found this a bit rude tbh, I don’t know the answer, and it’s not something I could change even if it were true. I’d keep it quiet for now, though you could perhaps discuss that they were in for the war, emphasising that all wars have more than one side, and mostly it’s just normal people caught up in the horrors

Leave it out. Especially as you say you've only learned a lot of this recently. Year 6 is too young to really consider the historical and moral issues here.

No mention of this person or the people they were living with during WW2 in this project.

I know an adult who was profoundly distressed to find out that his sweet old grandfather had been a Nazi sympathiser in one of the occupied countries, so definitely keep this under wraps as far as telling the school goes.

I was trying to work out how to make a similar point as LemonSock but was afraid it would sound like Whataboutery - but the fact is a lot of English people will have ancestors who did quite questionable things in the colonies - and there seems to be very little appetite for examining that history critically
Look at the number of documentaries about all aspects of WW2 and so little about the colonial past

My kids don't have great grandparents so I would have made up some stuff about rationing and seen if the place they lived in was bombed and used a few pics of that.

I definitely wouldn't get into specifics in your case and go for a life in country X sort of spin.

Book - www.amazon.co.uk/Nazi-Family-hidden-wartime-Germany-ebook/dp/B00U58T490/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&crid=28NKLSBYBILIE&keywords=a+nazi+in+the+family+book&sprefix=a+nazi%2Caps%2C149&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid=1585831188&sr=1-1
Sums up the field of intergenerational trauma - www.psychiatrictimes.com/comorbidity-psychiatry/intergenerational-transmission-trauma-introduction-clinician

Can find more if you like but that'll start you off. Good luck. There in spades I'm sure is very true.

Tricky grandad he did but he didn't need to, his picture is in a well known museum and we have all the Nazi war records. 😳 We also have another uncle who was SS and we still have his eidelweis medal 🤷🏻‍♀️ again pictures in the family albums show them in their uniforms. Like my family have pictures of family in their British uniforms.

Global migration has ment many many families in the UK will have a German ancestor now.

It is what it is, it can't be changed, explore it in a age appropriate way.

Unfortunately I wouldn’t want him talking about it in school at that age. That’s something that I could see other kids using against him. If it’s a project where the teachers have said it won’t get shared then I’d be inclined to include it - it’s an interesting perspective and y6 should be old enough to go into it at some level. But unless the teacher has already anticipated the fact that exploring your own history may bring up something that you don’t really want shared, I would concentrate of other ancestors.

If he were 16+ I wouldn’t hesitate to share with him and let him make his own deciscion.

My friends kids were bullied for being German at this age - despite that they had a relative who was part of the resistance and smuggled Jews out of Germany. I'm not sure if it's something the school would be able to handle sensitively do perhaps approach the school for advice as to whether to mention it

I would not hide this from your children but absolutely, positively and under no circumstances would I allow this to feature in any way, shape or form in a school project

Children (and some teachers) lack nuance. Your child will not yet have the intellect or social skills to discuss this beyond family at this stage in his development.

I guarantee that if he is in a UK school and this becomes public knowledge, it will be used against him by other children. It will not pass unnoticed. They will make him feel ashamed of his family or heritage which he really should not be.

He should be free to share or discuss this with anyone he wants when he is older but not now and not in a school setting.

It would be highly unusual for a yr 6 child to have a grandparent old enough to have served in WW2. So most children will have to find about great or great great grandparents i.e people they've never met or someone from local area. I think I'd just pick someone, maybe a name off war memorial if you can safely walk to that and let him research that.