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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

In hoping this is the end of cruises?

277 replies

nakedavengerreturns · 01/04/2020 11:15

Carnival Cruises are in the shit following the Pandemic. https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/mar/31/carnival-cruises-seeks-6bn-funding-amid-coronavirus-fallout?CMP=ShareAndroidAppp_Facebook

AIBU in hoping this is the end of these disgusting floating effluent and
emission producing shit heaps that sully our global waters?

OP posts:
cjpark · 01/04/2020 17:15

Of course cruises bring money to the local economy - yes maybe breakfast is eaten on the ship, but excursions are all booked through local companies and families. We always use local people to tour / explore the local area if arriving at a port. We visit the cafes, restaurants they recommend and put money into the economy. Probably far more than people who have all inclusive hols and flop on a beach all day!

CatherineOfAragonsPomegranate · 01/04/2020 17:28

If you’re going to pounce on me and say SEE YOU’VE BEEN ON HOLIDAY BEFORE SO SHUT UP, I know I’m not perfect.

I was never going to say it so rudely but unfortunately you do sum up why I switch off when I hear these arguments. It's unfortunately a case of 'I'm alright Jack' I've seen the world, I've made great memories, I've broadened my mind, and now that I've had my soul's fix and am fulfilled to an extent, I advocate to stop everyone not so fortunate than me enjoying what I have done, because they would be selfish to do so.

Then there's the 'but I took Airplanes' justification.

We live in a 2 tier world as it is. There is a problem, but rather than banning and seeking to restrict the rights of others (because it cannot apply to us retrospectively so we're comfortable with that) we need to find alternative solutions.

Lippy1234 · 01/04/2020 17:41

ErrolTheDragon I’ve mainly only been in mid to large size ships and Just one smaller ship.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 01/04/2020 17:45

many wrongs don't make a right

Totally agree with you on that one, but you're a bit behind the curve with the changes being made in Dubrovnik www.thedubrovniktimes.com/news/dubrovnik/item/5084-has-tourism-killed-dubrovnik-the-telegraph

In fairness, one city which really has got a problem with this is Barcelona, but then with the surging violence in the place I can see the cruise lines avoiding it, just as they did with Istanbul, Egypt, Tunisia, Honduras and Acapulco
I can't speak for the others, but I visited both Istanbul and Luxor during those times and the dismay from many who lost their cruise-generated income was profound ...

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 01/04/2020 18:08

@CatherineOfAragonsPomegranate said:

We live in a 2 tier world as it is. There is a problem, but rather than banning and seeking to restrict the rights of others (because it cannot apply to us retrospectively so we're comfortable with that) we need to find alternative solutions.

Applause to that comment.

I'm not in disagreement, one iota, that immediate, serious action is needed to preserve and protect this planet. What it's difficult to fathom is why the concept of 'alternative solutions' is so offensive to those who have decided that others' pleasures should be banned outright, toute suite, if these go against their particular principles. It's one of the reasons the virtue spiral has become such a laughing stock, and as a result, fewer people are willing to take seriously an issue that is actually extremely urgent and serious.

There needs to be a broad-scale, global, change in attitudes about the way we do business and the way we manufacture products which might ease our convenience but are destroying our surroundings. Sustainability is already big business, and it's growing. There are ways to make this planet more sustainable without shrieking 'ban it!' or 'stop travelling!' about anything that offends XR principles, however right they may be.

If people pontificate from privileged positions about how everyone else should sacrifice their pleasures in their travel, give up essential travel for work, get rid of their wood burners and hot tubs etc, they will likely will have the opposite effect to the one intended. That's especially true seeing that the lesser privileged are so often the ones expected to make the sacrifices.

A good many of the solutions are already out there and what's now urgently needed is serious global investment and a commitment to making them work. Preaching at end-users for their doubtless modest holiday habits is likely to achieve sweet FA, other than to get their backs up.

And a fat lot of good that will do.

Swiftier · 01/04/2020 18:19

I don’t think those that are taking cruises are generally ‘less privileged’. They’re generally pretty expensive, and are marketed as ‘exclusive’ ‘luxury’ etc, no?

sunfloweryy · 01/04/2020 18:23

@CatherineOfAragonsPomegranate

I totally get you but believe me when I say I’m not saying it in retrospect. Yes I’ve been on holiday but the list of places I would love the travel to is extensive. I’m in my mid twenties, I’d dearly love for me and DH to spend the next few years globe trotting. I’ve nowhere near had my souls fix - I don’t even think I’ve begun compared to lots of people.

But I do feel really strongly that something needs to change and that we ALL need to make sacrifices, me included. The destruction humans leave in their wake is so saddening - Maya Bay and in fact lots of parts of South East Asia are great examples.

We need to take a long hard look at the way we humans conduct ourselves across the globe, this thread is about cruise ships and unfortunately I think they do more harm than add value. But of course that’s not to say other things don’t need to change too.

TomPinch · 01/04/2020 19:27

There are ways to make this planet more sustainable without shrieking 'ban it!' or 'stop travelling!' about anything that offends XR principles, however right they may be.

Not really. We no longer have the time to spend negotiating with overgrown toddlers who want their sweeties.

habibihabibi · 01/04/2020 19:57

Perhaps a solution is to moor the ships permanently in a warm location. I have heard a lot of people never get off when ships dock.

ErrolTheDragon · 01/04/2020 20:15

I wouldn't ban these ships (though would entirely understand if more current destinations chose to). But I don't think it's wrong to hope that these events make people think twice about cruising on large ships.

I was wondering about the dancers and other performers - if people really want to see that type of show can't they do it on land? Or is it just something to do if you're in the middle of the sea? (Ive no idea what the appeal might be)

MrsKypp · 01/04/2020 20:18

I hope it will be the end of the enormous cruise ships, but that smaller ones will continue.

A friend of mine used to be a dancer on cruises and said that they very often had problems with the sewage and that led to illness on board.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 01/04/2020 20:27

This reply has been deleted

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Lockheart · 01/04/2020 20:36

A number of people are talking about banning cruises means curtailing the rights of others.

The thing is noone, but noone, has the right to travel overseas, on a cruise or otherwise, and see the world. Not me, not you, not my dad who is disabled (Parkinson's) and can no longer fly. Noone.

It is a pleasure to do so but it is a privilege, and not an entitlement. The problem is in the last 50 years or so it has become extraordinarily accessible in ways never before seen in history and people now assume it's a right and feel like they just can't live without a sunny summer holiday somewhere.

It's not, its a luxury. Like chocolate, getting your nails done, fancy cars etc etc.

As to whether cruise ships should be banned, well there's no doubt they bring great damage as well as great benefits. It's not a cut and dried issue.

eaglejulesk · 01/04/2020 20:41

@nakedavengerreturns - I'm also in NZ and totally agree with you. Not just cruise ships either, going by the way some tourists treat our beautiful countryside!

Geepipe · 01/04/2020 21:28

I agree op. Ive never been on a cruise although my family have been a few times and love it. I looked into it as i thought iy was more environmentally friendly than flying but since finding out it can be worse i refuse to entertain the idea. I have been looking at interrailing instead (pipe drean now i have no job for the forseeable future but one day ) :) its sad how people have no care for the planet as long as they have fun and conveinience. Its also sad how people dont care about poor people abroad being exploited because "they are desperate for the money" so that makes it ok then? I think now would be a fantastic time for scientists to start producing more eco friendly travel even if it wont be implemented for years.

Ibizafun · 01/04/2020 21:40

I wouldn’t like to see them banned meaning so many people lose their livelihoods but I loath the floating prisons.

Can’t see ski resorts ever being banned though.. too much history (and fun)

AtomicRabbit · 01/04/2020 21:52

Ski resorts are on their way out too. It's too hot. You can't ski on water... only a few more years left. Sadly.

60% of the alps are dependent on snow making machines. That number will only increase with time until it's just too hot to make snow at all before it melts.

Mysterian · 01/04/2020 22:01

You can't ski on water. - How about water skiing?

Lippy1234 · 02/04/2020 09:14

I was on a 6 day cruise to Norway from Southampton a few years ago and about one third of the passengers had physical impairments, medical conditions, learning difficulties. I don’t think most of these people would have been to go on holiday abroad if it wasn’t for cruising from the U.K. Some of the passengers had really severe impairments and needed two carers and they were there at breakfast looking at the beautiful views. Children with cerebral palsy were enjoying family time as they watched ice skating shows on board. The staff were so helpful, there were lifts for people to use and everything laid out for easy accessiblilty.

Sleepwhenimalive · 02/04/2020 09:29

My brothers a hypoxic tetraplegic who has enjoyed a couple of cruises. He liked the views.

He now holidays in an adapted cottage in Cornwall and enjoys the view there with his carers because he has since realised from first hand experience that cruise ships are absolutely disgusting.

corythatwas · 02/04/2020 09:56

I live in a city which is badly impacted by pollution from cruise ships. Against the freedom of relatively wealthy people to see exotic views I think you have to balance the right of local people not to get asthma and not to have their local wildlife destroyed.

It's not the "less privileged" who would have to give up on cruises; the less privileged are the people who have to live near to the docks because it's cheap and whose air is filled with harmful particles from constantly burning engines causing long term health problems. I only know one person who's been on cruises and he is pretty well off: I've seen what his cruises have cost and he'd have to be!

There are great things to see in this country, or in France (easily accessible by train), the Netherlands, Germany, Ireland.

SerenDippitty · 02/04/2020 10:02

Cruises are not necessarily more expensive than any other type of all inclusive and there are often good last minute deals to be had. It’s a mistake to imagine that anyone who goes on a cruise must be wealthy

corythatwas · 02/04/2020 10:08

They are still going to be wealthier than most of the people who have to take the brunt of the pollution they cause. And the shipping companies are not running cruise ships for last-minute-deals; they'd go out of business if they tried. Primarily, this is about the people who can afford things causing serious health issues for people who can't.

Rainbowqueeen · 02/04/2020 11:11

I’m really bothered by how the cruise companies are acting now. Several boats sitting off the coast of Australia hoping to be let in to dock there.
Why aren’t they heading for their home ports, offloading passengers and staff and making arrangements for those people to get home. I realise this is a really complex issue but from what I can see they are currently doing nothing other than to expect others to take over that responsibility for them.
I wouldn’t want to travel with an organisation that has no little regard for their clientele and staff.

ErrolTheDragon · 02/04/2020 12:06

Why aren’t they heading for their home ports, offloading passengers and staff and making arrangements for those people to get home.

Are their 'home ports' able and willing to take the passengers?
Are these boats all fit to travel from where they are to wherever that might be, in whatever the weather may currently be doing?

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