AIBU? Ex demanding I facetime his MIL with DS during lockdown

[Darklesparkles]

I suspect that I may be overreacting here and am in fact being unreasonable but my separated ex (emotionally abusive) husband is demanding that I facetime his mother with 2yr old DS today. I said yesterday I would consider doing it and he has just texted saying "Hi Darklesparkles, you said you would do a facetime with my mother and DS yesterday, can you do it today please". Maybe because I sense he is using it to try and be controlling. (Maybe I am being oversenstive?)

The reason that I don't want to do this is I know that MIL will nearly 100% use the phone call as a means to start pleading for us to get back together and asking will I come back. She knows about the abuse, but thinks it is nothing, and that we should get back together for the sake of our child. She has been sending me multiple messages about how she thought we would be strong together especially during this time of coronavirus, and that she is praying we will get back together and that I should go back and stay in isolation away from my parents to work on the marriage(!).

However, I do understand that with the lockdown, that they have not seen their grandchild for 3 weeks (have explained this in other threads) but I have sent pictures and also I know that stbexh will have sent all these on, including videos etc. Am facetiming him every night.

Am i being extremely selfish? Yes?

Instead of recording the calls... you could either say
"I'm concerned as you've just made a suicide threat on the call with DS. I'll be calling the police now to do a welfare check for your own good"

Or

"Do you need me to call the police to do a welfare check? I'm concerned for your MH following suicide threats on XYZ"

Are the local police domestic violence unit aware of your situation? I think you need to call them and explain whats been happening, he's ramping up with the suicide threat.

Personally I would just tell him to crack on. You aren't responsible for his mh. He has no regard for yours...

I'd record it
Making suicide threats on a call to a 2 year old is dreadful
Your solicitor will be able to advise later on whether you can use the recording or not

Think in view of his ramping up the interrogation and the manipulation you need to suspend all contact for now

Cancel his contract get your new mobile number and keep his contact isolated to the old number.

Do this as a matter of urgency and then you’ll be free.

Grey rock the shit out of him, it absolutely works

And call 101 to get the ball rolling on getting some back up

When things are calmer they can go and have a chat with him so he’ll know he can’t fuck with you.

Also get the divorce stuff in plan. The sooner he’s out of your lives the better

Keep the control.

Check in with the police, put yourself on their radar.

If he makes “suicide” remarks again say “that’s not appropriate talk for DS to hear, so stop”. And the of he does it again, terminate the call. “You’ve been given fair warning. We are ending the call”

Then switch off to airplane mode.

Honest to god, the bloke is an idiot! Reduce contact to once every few days, any nonsense on the calls, end it. I’d be asking your mum to facilitate the calls so he doesn’t hear or see you. You’re separated, ds should be the only one he cares about.

I would as a minimum send a message that you are deeply concerned that he is making suicide threats in front of DS, if it happens again then you will immediately end the call and call the police to do a welfare check.

Or just wait and see if it happens again, end the call, call the police to do a welfare check especially as it would be the second time and done in front of a child.

At least your son is only two, so won't really understand the implications of 'kill myself', or remember this in future. But, what an utterly, horribly, callously unacceptable thing to say in front of a child. Your ex clearly has no care for the child's wellbeing.

More than anything, I think your son needs to be protected from this continuing verbal emotional abuse - which is happening on his time. He may not understand all the words and implications but, as you said earlier, he does understand the tone.

My thought for when you do run video calls, would be to do it at a meal time, so DS is sitting still at a table, with something else to occupy him. You can prop up your device in front of him and let them chat and try to get his attention. His activity gives them a cue for something to comment on e.g. 'do you like that carrot? Yummy!' (at least that's what normal people would do).

Thanks folks, I am recording (in a journal) all of his statement like this.

I have no inclination to believe that he does have suicidal tendencies (though I know you can never be 100% sure) it is just trying to manipulate and hurt as much as possible.

He even said last Sunday when I didn't answer his call that "when you don't answer it makes me feel like you just want me to catch coronavirus and die, Darkle. I'm sure that would make you so happy
."

It not suicide threatening as such, more if I wasn't the type of person I am, I would be hanging by a rope by now because of "your actions" Darkle.

Flippant, callous manipulation tactic.

I would carry on with the journal and also record the video sessions, no reason not to. It's evidence that you enabled the contact to happen and coincidence that it also records his emotional abuse.

This is why you should close down any conversations with him at all - if you squeeze him down on calls to ONLY talking to your son, there "should" be less opportunity for him to hit you with those cringy remarks/veiled threats.
I can see why you left him, to be honest. The very sound of him makes me wince.

It not suicide threatening as such, more if I wasn't the type of person I am, I would be hanging by a rope by now because of "your actions" Darkle.

I think the only response to that is 'right back at ya - remember why you find yourself here matey.'

If he's saying he's suicidal, I would be speaking to my solicitor about that as grounds for DS to stay with me permanently and not go there for now at all. It's both him caught by his own trap, and also a very real risk to DS .

Darker, do you have a residence order or this has been brought to court at any point?

If not, refuse unsupervised contact completely, they only need not to return the kids for a couple of weeks and they become the “resident” parent.

I suggest you post about this in the legal topic, having suicide threats regularly is a massive form of harassment, her mother needs to be stoped as well but the easiest most practical way to do it is not on the hands of any authority but yours, while you continue to consent to calls you are your worst enemy (I learned this the hard way)

Agree with @ButteryPuffin

The threats to keep him coupled with the flippant suicide conversations (and in front of DS!!!) are a huge field of red flags, flapping merrily in the breeze!!

I'm sure your solicitor will advise you on this.

Sending positivity for tonight's call.x.

I’d record as with a journal he could say you’re just making it up x

I have heard that courts take a positive view of handwritten journals / diaries. The idea being that you keep a notebook where you immediately note any of these bad behaviours along with the date. It is obvious from the handwriting, ink etc that it was a contemporaneous record not something you made up later or put a different spin on later.

Threats to keep the toddler along with statements about killing himself, both those made within earshot of his child and directly to you, will be taken seriously by the judge and social services if you need to take it that far. Same for isolation violations despite higher risks in the family. Maybe he is full of lies but he is shutting off any chance of unsupervised contact pretty rapidly (which increases the chance of you getting the house or a big share of it too). If he turns round to the judge and says everything was lies, he doesn't help himself. Shooting himself in the foot. He's handing the win to you on a platter, all you have to do is take it.

Help yourself now for the future. Start keeping your big file of evidence.

Suicide threats are all part of the script aren’t they? Please remember you are not responsible for his emotions or his responses to his emotions.

He’s an emotionally manipulative bully that’s for sure. If he’s going to speak like that you need to use his own words against him to keep your son safe.

Suicide threats - don't touch with a barge pole. Don't get involved at all. Immediately say you are not qualified to deal with that, end the conversation on the spot, and report it straight to the police who will take it from there. Unfortunately they're more than used to the cry for help and the genuinely suicidal, they're very good at it, and they will deal with any real need he has. Any real need he has is between him and supportive services anyway, it doesn't involve you. If it's just saying it for effect and leverage then he won't try it again.

The evidence that he has demonstrated this kind of instability and threatening behaviour however will be on record, and is very important when courts look at contact. The safety of the child and not being exposed to witnessing abusive or unstable behaviour is taken seriously.

If it isn't directly relevant to practical arrangements of divorce/finance and ds contact, it's nothing to do with you.

• just to add: don't go into details with the police. Calm, straight to the point, "my ex has just made a suicide threat to me on the phone/by email/ as I picked up our 2 year old and I am very concerned for his safety". Other than sharing his name and location that's the end of your responsibility.

Advice question on two things please everyone.

1. I mentioned I was keeping a journal. I have been keeping a record but only really consistently the last few weeks. (Stupidly, should have long ago). Other incidents have been recorded (abusive incidents during marriage and separation) with my solicitor. Should I back date at all using something like WhatsApp chat records where he has been PA etc? And other incidents i remember where i have a rough idea of time frame? Unfortunately he rarely slips up by text, it nearly 100% verbal by phone or in person.

1. The call with ex and mil tonight. If she starts asking questions like when will DGS be down, what's happening here, are you definitely divorcing etc etc. (or ex does). (Which she definitely will I think.) Am I better not responding at all, just being silent? Or just diverting constantly back to DS like I did the other night?

Thank you x

It was tough the other night and tonight I will have him, and MIL machine gunning questions at me once she finishes shouting how are you DS?! at poor DS. I know her well, this is how she operates.

I would just say this is not the appropriate time to discuss this. Speak to DS appropriately or I will end the call.