AIBU? Ex demanding I facetime his MIL with DS during lockdown

[Darklesparkles]

I suspect that I may be overreacting here and am in fact being unreasonable but my separated ex (emotionally abusive) husband is demanding that I facetime his mother with 2yr old DS today. I said yesterday I would consider doing it and he has just texted saying "Hi Darklesparkles, you said you would do a facetime with my mother and DS yesterday, can you do it today please". Maybe because I sense he is using it to try and be controlling. (Maybe I am being oversenstive?)

The reason that I don't want to do this is I know that MIL will nearly 100% use the phone call as a means to start pleading for us to get back together and asking will I come back. She knows about the abuse, but thinks it is nothing, and that we should get back together for the sake of our child. She has been sending me multiple messages about how she thought we would be strong together especially during this time of coronavirus, and that she is praying we will get back together and that I should go back and stay in isolation away from my parents to work on the marriage(!).

However, I do understand that with the lockdown, that they have not seen their grandchild for 3 weeks (have explained this in other threads) but I have sent pictures and also I know that stbexh will have sent all these on, including videos etc. Am facetiming him every night.

Am i being extremely selfish? Yes?

Just completely ignore any questions they ask you, if the start saying anything inappropriate

"That was in appropriate if it carries On I will end this" then next time just tell DS to say goodbye to them and hang up

I'd be very clear that the purpose of the call if for them to interact with DS in an appropriate manner. There will be no other discussion on any other topic. If they start, warn them of this. If they continue, end the call. You are in control of this. As other PPs have said, keep yourself out of view as much as possible. You did great last time! You will do great this time.

I still don't see why it has to be you hosting the call. Why can't you wander off and leave your mum supervising ds?
The call is for your EX to interact with his son, not you. Why be forced into some bizarre masquerade of Happy Families?

Apparently she is "checking post for him every day in case he receives a letter from the solicitor because she is so worried that I might top myself Darkle. You're not the victim here Darkle, my poor mum is really suffering Darkle. She thinks I'm going to kill myself Darkle."

This is appalling and so far from appropriate. Id say this is certainly him extending the abuse to your child now. Whether he means to or not. Why would any loving parent expose their child to this kind of subject? (Him, not you)

If this call tonight goes as badly as you suspect, id put the brakes on any further calls until you've got advice from your solicitor. He's using these calls to abuse, threaten and harass you and by extension, your baby boy. It's a bloody good job your son is so young and doesn't understand what daddy is saying when he tells him he's going to be staying with daddy for a long time and oh yes daddy might kill himself because of mummy.

Your ex is a piece of shit. I have no more words than that. I think he's doing more harm than you know to your son and to yourself.

If i were to you id go ahead with the call, and keep it on topic with ds as you did so brilliantly the other night. If they start to overwhelm you, you start to feel panicky or anxious, or they say anything that is inappropriate or not directly to or about ds - end the call. Hang up straightaway. I wouldn't even explain before you do it. Id just end the call and switch your phone off so you can regroup. They're DESPERATE for you to engage with them. They'll say whatever it takes to get a reaction out of you and if you do, then they'll have taken a bit of the power back. Don't let them. They don't get to sit there and say whatever they want to you while you just take it.

Agree with above. Interrupt calmly and nicely, to the effect of no, you know most of the answers and this is your time to spend with DS. No, these aren't things to talk about in front of ds, it's stressful for him, I don't want him to associate contact with stress and it's not what contact is for. Redirect to ds. If need be, warn and then end call.

The less you are willing to talk about anything verbally the more ex will need to move to email/text which works to keep records and may also inhibit him a bit as to what he's prepared to put on record. They need to start working out that you're nothing to do with either of them, you don't have a relationship with them any more, you're just the facilitator of ds seeing them. It's all about him.

If she's checking post for him every day, either she is going to his home or he is going to hers - hardly maintaining the healthy distance important at the moment.

And I agree with a poster upthread - record, record, record - if you can't use them, you've lost nothing. And they might just make a difference.

And in the highly unlikely scenario that he does do something to self-harm, please remember

a) It is NOT your fault/responsibility

b) It is NOT genuine despair - it is an attempt at manipulation

c) Any court would see it as evidence of either MH problems or extreme control and in either case wouldn't give him custody your child

Maybe message them both just before starting the call or say at the start of the call that it is for the purposes of contact with DS, any questions or comments for you should be sent via email, you will not be conversing at all in that time.

Good luck! NBot that you need it, you got this.x.

And if they're machinegunning questions at you and you're feeling stressed then you can simply say this is really unpleasant, I'm not doing this, bye now.

As pp says, you're under no obligation to tolerate being treated like this.

‘When will he be down?’
‘Dunno, ask Boris.’

Oh wow. I can't add anything except listen to the amazing advice you have been given on here. He is a massive tool who is losing his power!

Any questions you simply say you need to go and feed ds /put to bed etc and end the call . Do not get into a conversation with either of them.
If they are still abusing you via ds then stop all calls altogether..
Yanbu to do this.

timeline

Try again.

Answer to question 1. Write a time line and literally fill it in as best you can. Add things in as and when you remember them so use something that allows you to add print out any evidence you have. Emails to solicitor. Texts. Doctors appointments. Any evidence you have at all and collate it.

You are writing the history for your solicitor so she can present it to the judge in a way that’s helpful to you. My ex had me through the courts for 9 years and I got better and better at getting things noted by doctor, police etc.

In the end mine lost parental responsibility, but I’d advise aiming for the maximum possible and trying to nail it down from the start.

Don’t Try to be fair like do many women do and then they end up being trapped in a constant cycle of abusive contact.

if they ask for contact, you say, "well as you are not isolating there is none, I will not be risking my parent's health"
If they start putting the screws on you, try & do as last time, if it becomes too much you say "this skyping is for the purpose of you seeing & interacting with DS, if you are not interested, it is over."
IMHO they will both cool off with the thumb screws because they are together, this is obvs why XH doesn't want his mother there, he can't threaten fake suicide, ridiculous throw away manipulative bollox infront of her
Good luck

"Can you do it today please" is a command not a request in English. A request/question would "could you do it today?" or "Is it possible for you to do it today"

The word CAN makes it a question, a request.

A command would be "Do it today"
A request/question is "Can you do it today?"

I disagree, it reads as a demand to me. ‘Could’ would be more polite.

Could may well be more polite. However, that still doesn't mean the word 'can' isn't a question or request.

Oh gosh - ignore this. I wrote it ages ago, forgot to press send. Restarted back on y computer after a long wait - and first thing it did was submit this!

Sorry

It’s not illegal for your to record phone / video calls between your number and your exs as long as it’s for your own use . You don’t need his permission.

If you were later to use it in court then your solicitor would deal with getting permission from the court etc .

I’m very concerned that he’s making suicide threats in front of your child. A person who is suicidal shouldn’t be in charge of a young child.

You need to be very clever and careful here @Darklesparkles. In his desperation to manipulate you he’s getting careless. The more you go grey rock, they more he will say and do to get you to obey him.

While that’s very scary for you, it’s actually playing into your hands. He can’t turn up on the doorstep and bully / threaten you, he has to do it by phone / email/ text. That Keeps you physically safe and allows you to record everything.

Can I suggest that you change your thinking on this ? Every time he acts unreasonably or says inappropriate things - don’t say

“ Oh no he’s angry, this is terrible , I’ve made him upset. I can’t believe he’s said such awful things to me . What can I do to fix it? “.

Say TO YOURSELF

“ Good, that’s another piece of evidence for my solicitor. “ and take a note of everything.

To him say nothing. Or if you must respond just grey rock “ Oh dear “ “that’s a shame “ “ Oh ok “.

Take a step back.
This is dad and mil contact time with ds

Put the iPad on, point to daddy and mil and walk away. Even if you can hear pretend not to, don't engage, take control.

When you go to hang up have a sentence prepared and use it each time. Eg "oh ds is it bed time now, say night night to daddy and nana. Night all" and hang up even if people are saying anything.

Thanks @I0NA, and all other PP for great advice.

30 minutes to go, trying not to let the anxiety get a grip on me. Actually feel sick.

*Can I suggest that you change your thinking on this ? Every time he acts unreasonably or says inappropriate things - don’t say

“ Oh no he’s angry, this is terrible , I’ve made him upset. I can’t believe he’s said such awful things to me . What can I do to fix it? “.

Say TO YOURSELF

“ Good, that’s another piece of evidence for my solicitor. “ and take a note of everything.

To him say nothing. Or if you must respond just grey rock “ Oh dear “ “that’s a shame “ “ Oh ok “.*

Yes, going to try this again. Grey rock. Deep breaths.

When you go to hang up have a sentence prepared and use it each time. Eg "oh ds is it bed time now, say night night to daddy and nana. Night all" and hang up even if people are saying anything.

Going to do this as well @forrestgreen

X

You could just keep saying something like

This is your time to speak to DS, this is not a time to discuss us.

Or something similar- whatever you feel comfortable with and just keep repeating it every time they try to bring up a topic that is not appropriate.
You may sound like a broken record by the end of it but standing your ground without been rude maybe what's needed. I'd like to think eventually they get the picture and actually pay attention to DS!

You can do it. What a court will want to know is that you value ds's time and right to a relationship with them - and so returning this constantly to this being ds's time with them, ooh look at ds, and keeping boundaries around anything else is all in your favour.

You're offering them the opportunity to be with their family member. If they want to spend it trying to get your attention that's sad for ds, but it's otherwise not your problem to fix.

Be like a politician. They have a little script of statements they say no matter what question the interviewer asks.

I would write them down on a piece of paper and keep it in my pocket for comfort.

I would also do a three strikes process, for my own comfort. It would work like this:

Strike 1: Any talk not about the direct interaction this moment with DS. "Send me an email about that. This call is for you to talk to DS."

Strike 2: as above, or any "clever" talking to DS when it is really aimed at you "Oh DS I wish mummy would not be a mean cowbag". "Any more of this and I will end the call. This call is for DS."

Strike 3: any of the above. "That's it. Goodbye."

It is quite likely the three strikes will happen within a few seconds of each other. That's OK.

Say absolutely nothing else when it goes into strike territory. Have your script in your fist. Say the words. Have no fear of hanging up. You have got this.

*Incidentally in case it makes you smile, just watching now a repeat of British Bake Off, a group of women contestants. They've obviously had a chat about this!

Paul Hollywood: Mean criticism, pointing out fault

Contestant, neutrally: Ok.

Paul Hollywood: More harsh criticism, you did this and that wrong and look how bad that is?

Contestant, neutrally and calmly: Ok.

Hollywood: shuts up.

They don't argue, they don't defend, they don't acknowledge fault or show emotion, they don't explain, they don't justify: he's got nothing to react with. Way to deal with a difficult person!

Holding your hand virtually! You can do this.

When I find my dh is being obnoxious I just say "Yes dear" to everything and ignore it. Have a book in your lap and read while he's talking to ds.....