AIBU? Ex demanding I facetime his MIL with DS during lockdown

[Darklesparkles]

I suspect that I may be overreacting here and am in fact being unreasonable but my separated ex (emotionally abusive) husband is demanding that I facetime his mother with 2yr old DS today. I said yesterday I would consider doing it and he has just texted saying "Hi Darklesparkles, you said you would do a facetime with my mother and DS yesterday, can you do it today please". Maybe because I sense he is using it to try and be controlling. (Maybe I am being oversenstive?)

The reason that I don't want to do this is I know that MIL will nearly 100% use the phone call as a means to start pleading for us to get back together and asking will I come back. She knows about the abuse, but thinks it is nothing, and that we should get back together for the sake of our child. She has been sending me multiple messages about how she thought we would be strong together especially during this time of coronavirus, and that she is praying we will get back together and that I should go back and stay in isolation away from my parents to work on the marriage(!).

However, I do understand that with the lockdown, that they have not seen their grandchild for 3 weeks (have explained this in other threads) but I have sent pictures and also I know that stbexh will have sent all these on, including videos etc. Am facetiming him every night.

Am i being extremely selfish? Yes?

also, as I mentioned before, if you reduce all communication to email you can direct all his bullshit to a specific folder & only look at it once or a couple of times a week. you have no obligation to check if he has contacted you. Think of him as a client, you will reply in order, if you have the time/inclination/need.
The end goal, is grey rock, (complete indifference) no anger, no fear, no guilt. any of the former use your energy.

Sorry crossed posts. You are doing great, you dealt with the call yesterday perfectly ! try the Freedom programme, you can do it on line although better in groups, (but obvs not right now).
You have left him, you are rebuilding yourself,& clearly will get here, it won't happen over night

Do not send him a photo or message today. If he texts you about a video call tell him tonight doesn't suit and you'll talk tomorrow. I also like the idea of having it earlier in the day. He's never going to do a bedtime story, so no need to be waiting until 7 every evening.

Do not contact his mother at all. You have no reason to. He wants his mother to have a video call, he organises it. Block her number on your phone. She has zero reason to be in contact with you.

You are doing good, but are still struggling with the urge to keep the peace. You don't have to do that any more. I'm not sure if you've noticed but most of your posts here have mentioned "I'll just send this text". "I'll just send one photo". "I'll just text his mother".

You left him because he was abusive and controlling. You are now away from him where he cannot access you. You are in a great position to put in place your own boundaries. Don't contact him. If you do, you will open up a dialogue. Which you will feel obliged to reply to. Even if it's just reiterating what you said in your first text.

Wait until he contacts you. Or if you made arrangements last night for video call tonight (I'm not sure if you arranged tonight or tomorrow) then go with that for tonight and on tonight's call make arrangements for the next one to be Saturday midday, or whatever suits you.

Stop chasing him. Especially stop chasing him to let him know you're not going to be chasing him anymore.

You’re still there @Darklesparkles, just covered with the shit he’s been piling on top of you.

Time to become a loop recording.
That doesn’t suit me
Let me think about that.

And contact your x mil when it suits you, and only if it suits you.
Cut him out of the arrangement.

Top post from wrybread.

OP, it's only 5 months since you left. The changes to being more assertive often don't happen overnight, and you should be proud of what you've achieved so far in asserting boundaries.

I left my abusive ex 3 years ago, after 3 decades of an abusive relationship. I'm only now feeling like I'm heading towards the person I was meant to be, I was always trying to m,odify myself while with him. We met when I was a teen and he was in his 20s. Says a lot, doesn't it?

I, too, felt it hard to assert myself around him, and he felt it okay to be demanding, especially after I left, and I felt guilty in not forcing the DC into talking with him. The youngest was 13, and neither wan't to speak to him. They'd suffered as well. I didn't talk bad about their dad, just left it to them to make their own decisions.

You will get through this, and believe me, the more you firm up those boundaries, the less he'll get to you. Right now, I can think about my ex and laugh at how pathetic he is when his power is gone.

Wow! Look at you flying! Darkle you are amazing.

You're the same person, OP. You just didn't know what he was until it was too late. So many women don't manage to leave so you've already taken the biggest, bravest step to take.

I really doubt any court would suggest the sending of daily photos but if you feel that's the best way to show you are maintaining contact reasonably at the moment I think the PPs post re Flickr was a great idea - you could set up a family only account and just drop photos there that he and his mum etc can access whenever they want to. Also means you don't have to word anything to anyone (as you would in a message)

I know you're being bombarded with suggestions right now but trust me, we all think you're doing amazingly well!!

Don't message MIL at all. You are guessing what games he is playing and you are trying to win the game through MIL. You will fail. It will be a drain. The only way to win is to refuse to play the game. Contact with MIL is nothing to do with you. Stay 100% out of it. You should not be contacting her.

darklesparkles I have been reading and just wanted to add to the chorus of ‘you are amazing’. It is so, so hard to break free of that level of control. You’re doing so well and have a bright future.

Also wanted to thank the posters who linked to ‘why does he do that’ - I hadn’t seen it before and it’s so helpful

Why text them separately? I’m going to assume you are all on iPhones (as you refer to FaceTime).

Just set up one message thread, with them both in. Send photos and all communications through that. If exDH wants to be a dickhead, he can in front of his dear mummy.

*And even though I was assertive last night I am falling back into the appeasement cycle of trying to guess his mood even remotely.

But you have just flagged this up massively to me. A big massive red flag.*

Yeah sorry lovely i can just see a lot of my own behaviours in what you describe. I imagine you are very anxious right now because he didn't respond the way you thought he would ie that when you switched your phone on you would have a barrage of texts and calls. So now I expect you're feeling quite unnerved. The ONLY way to get past it is to realise that his reactions are NOT your fault, and NOT your problem. If you set a perfectly reasonable boundary, such as "i will help ds to facetime with you every other day, and your mother should join in with that call" and he overreacts, guilt trips or otherwise tries to manipulate you it is not your fault. You are the reasonable one, but you are only five months into your new life. Barely any time at all and he's still controlling you, you're only just waking up to what he's doing. That's not a failing. You're not stupid, or weak, or gullible. You're a person who has been emotionally abused and no abuser starts off at 100%. Its insidious and sneaky, and you slowly get accustomed to appeasing that person.

However long you've been with him, and whatever has led you to being with him in your past (childbood/teenage issues setting you on that path?) cannot be undone in 5 months, and you can't even start until you recognise how your own responses can keep you trapped in this cycle, which you are before our very eyes

You've made the most incredible start. Honestly it might not feel like it, but every little step you take defying him and reinforcing your boundaries is leading you one step closer to the point when you realise that he no longer has any emotional control over you.

Counselling sounds like a fantastic idea by the way. My own emotions were so tied up with my manipulators emotions that every little thing i did i felt i had to put them first and worry about their reaction... Even on things that had barely anything to do with them! It was exhausting. Counselling helped me to get to the bottom of why i was that way and to teach me the skills i needed to stop doing the things i was doing that was keeping me trapped.

I would not try to 'sew any discord' with mother-in-law. This is passive aggressive. Just tell her the time of the call and that she is welcome to join. I know this is really hard and very tempting, but do not give your ex ANY ammunition. Polite, considerate, short to the point interactions to communicate the essentials. Do not get bogged down in any unnecessary drama. You are doing great. Are you out for some exercise with DS this pm? Really helps clear the head and take your mind off all thisx

Wow Op you have come so far in such a short space of time! Well done you.

Next time he mentions, "HOME," you could always pipe up (from your background of clattering with pots) "Oh yes, we will need to talk about that in due course - when things settle down with CV, we should see about getting the house valued.

Please don't. The thing to do with abusers is take the heat out and leave them nothing to argue with and nowhere to go. Your facetime call yesterday is a prime example of the ideal way to handle men like your STBX. Disengage, disengage, disengage.

There's no point throwing petrol on the flames at this stage by raising issues relating to the house. For one thing, conveyancing is currently in abeyance. There are no house sales or moves going through and no contracts are being exchanged, and this is likely to continue for some time because of the pandemic. Secondly, divorce laywers are paid to negotiate these issues on your behalf. There's no way an untrained person - particularly one who has been maniupluated and abused by her partner - should be dealing with this. And thirdly, it's giving him another topic to argue about and another reason for being in contact, when that's what you are trying to cut off at the knees.

The same goes for any contact with MiL. Facilitating any form of contact between her and her DGC is now his responsibility, not yours. When dealing with people like this you can't leave any chinks in your armour, because they'll jab a wrench straight into them. What's more, they'll spot any leverage from a mile away.

Disengage. This is really great progress you're making already, OP, and many congratulations for having had the courage to leave this bastard in the first place. You own this.

You're right. You're not the person you used to be. He has groomed you to mainly just be who he wanted you to be.

But you're already rediscovering yourself.

I'm neither the person I was pre-ex. Nor the person he trained me to become.

It's felt scary in places, trying new things, trying to work out who I am now. But I like most of me now, and I didn't before. And yes, individual counselling with someone who is experienced in helping people overcome abuse, is helpful. And so is the Freedom Programme.

Just to warn you, years on, I do still sometimes get anxiety about how he's going to respond to something serious. It helps to work out what the signs are, and to acknowledge it. And then keep busy.

Oh and it's worse if he's physically there, or you hear his voice etc. It's much easier to recover if you can minimise how much that happens, because otherwise your body can get stuck in a stress response.

In time you'll be able to play manipulation bingo....when he tries different things to manipulate you, and you can mentally tick them off as he tries, and laugh at it. Dark humour helps!

You're doing so well Op.

It must be hard-you're obviously a lovely, kind person & like most people can't be deliberately rude to people or you inadvertently tell them too much as you are judging them by your own standards-ie everything you say won't be weighed, measured & recorded to use against you later if at all possible!

I agree with giving him no ammunition.

Most of us wouldn't antagonise anyone for the sake of it would we, let alone someone we know to be manipulative & nasty!

@ChewChewIsMySpiritAnimal

Thanks for that.

I imagine you are very anxious right now because he didn't respond the way you thought he would ie that when you switched your phone on you would have a barrage of texts and calls. So now I expect you're feeling quite unnerved.

Yes, 100%. I thought I would be relieved if no messages, in fact this has nearly made me more anxious!

The ONLY way to get past it is to realise that his reactions are NOT your fault, and NOT your problem.

^This, I need to "re-condition" myself to this, as you picked up (from childhood for various reasons) I very much want to appease and am very much an empath, people pleaser!

Will look into counselling (am guessing they now do by Skype or something?) as am realising that I am not ok, and am probably a bit in denial about that to myself.

You guys have been a massive eye opener in terms of picking up behaviour/ways of communicating with Ex that I couldn't see myself and that need to be addressed asap if I am going to break this cycle.

Learning about codependence may help.

Also a book called The Reality Slap may help you to find yourself again. It is a kinder book than it sounds!

@Wrybread

It's much easier to recover if you can minimise how much that happens, because otherwise your body can get stuck in a stress response.

I was just thinking about this. I agree with you all that hearing him (and his PA comments) every day are too much. It gives me constant anxiety/dread at a certain time of day because I feel like I have to call him.

Will start by saying call every other day while in lockdown. Will not do one today but will send text later for one tomorrow (with MIL) and ignore any blow-up as best I can.

I have to do something, I have honestly been constantly sick the past 5 months. Literally one cold/viral infection after another. Even now I feel another sinus infection coming on. I am never sick. This has to be because I am constantly living under stress, even if I don't realise it.

@TorkTorkBam

Thanks, will have a search for it on Amazon later.

Already found a good few ones last night on surviving narcissist abuse.

Thanks to PP who suggested Lundy Bancroft, that was a real eye-opener.

That book The Reality Slap could be a great help. It works towards finding your core values (amongst other things). This gives you something to turn to, to cling to whenever you feel attacked. It helps build an appropriate defensive shield around yourself.

@Astressie

No best not to try and sew discord as you say.

Yes, going to go for a nice walk with DS soon while it's still (a bit) sunny.

Two more women who help with getting your perspective on interactions in a healthier place, and getting your eye in to see the work going on underneath abuser scripts:

www.chumplady.com/

and

www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/index.html

Both quite entertaining reading and lots of short, dippable bites.

And from Issendai's article on dysfunctional beliefs:

People who love each other don’t need boundaries. When you set boundaries, you’re saying you don’t love me.

If I’m attached to you, then you’re attached to me. You can’t consider yourself detached from me until I’ve detached from you.

You’re still responsible for my emotions after you end the relationship.

You’re abusive when you refuse to care for my emotional wounds.

If I have an emotional reaction to something someone does, the other person is responsible for my emotions.

If I have an emotional reaction to something, then that something is my business. This is true even if it concerns another person’s private life.

Emotions cause actions. When I feel something, I can’t not act on it. (Or, at least, it’s wrong not to act on it.)

People aren’t responsible for what they feel. I’m not responsible for my emotions, and emotion causes action, so I’m not responsible for my actions. (The person responsible for my emotions is responsible for my actions. You made me feel this way, so you made me act this way. If you want to make me act differently, make me feel differently.)

My pain is the complete justification for why someone should resume a relationship with me.

Refusing to have a relationship with me is abusive.

You might recognise a couple there!