AIBU? Ex demanding I facetime his MIL with DS during lockdown

[Darklesparkles]

I suspect that I may be overreacting here and am in fact being unreasonable but my separated ex (emotionally abusive) husband is demanding that I facetime his mother with 2yr old DS today. I said yesterday I would consider doing it and he has just texted saying "Hi Darklesparkles, you said you would do a facetime with my mother and DS yesterday, can you do it today please". Maybe because I sense he is using it to try and be controlling. (Maybe I am being oversenstive?)

The reason that I don't want to do this is I know that MIL will nearly 100% use the phone call as a means to start pleading for us to get back together and asking will I come back. She knows about the abuse, but thinks it is nothing, and that we should get back together for the sake of our child. She has been sending me multiple messages about how she thought we would be strong together especially during this time of coronavirus, and that she is praying we will get back together and that I should go back and stay in isolation away from my parents to work on the marriage(!).

However, I do understand that with the lockdown, that they have not seen their grandchild for 3 weeks (have explained this in other threads) but I have sent pictures and also I know that stbexh will have sent all these on, including videos etc. Am facetiming him every night.

Am i being extremely selfish? Yes?

I'm just checking you know today is Thursday???

Def start a CMS claim because he will use money against you. Just put in as though he is still having DS EOW

My ex also tried the ‘but you’re my wife’ line and I just said ‘ex wife’ in reply. He needs reminding that you are not together and will never be a couple again (he knows this but it’s all about trying to keep you under his control).

Keep going Darkle, you are doing so well!

@RandomMess

The pleasures of WFH, completely lost track of days!

Meant Fri i.e. not do a call tonight again and invite MIL to call on Fri.

Send this msg with pictures. Do not engage further. And cancel phone if no sign of payment by later on today.

Yes, think he is sulking.

Stop trying to keep the peace. He's using your niceness against you. Say your broadband is down and take a couple of days to breathe and reflect, think about what you want. Do you want to facetime every evening at 7? Do you want to text everyday?
Just take a step back. Stop trying to keep him calm or placate him - after all he is giving no shits about you, other than that you are not doing his bidding.

This is so lovely all the advice and support you are getting OP. But, remember he will not be used to you being assertive. And, also the most difficult thing about being assertive is not to lapse into being aggressive or passive aggressive because being assertive is hard. (I am lapsing into 'teacher talking' having taught assertiveness courses.) I would say take it steady, one step at a time, minimal contact and don't over complicate things. Remember assertiveness accepting your responsibilities as well as your asserting your rights. But you must also recognise the other parties'. I know this sounds wrong because he is abusive. However, don't let things backfire because of your new found assertiveness. This does sometimes happen when people change their behaviour. You are doing great. One step at a time. You are a brave, kind warrior womanxx

Why do you feel the need to send daily photos/videos? Why?

In my opinion that isn’t normal for separated parents, particularly if you separated due to abuse and intending to divorce. It’s just opening a door for communication between you

What’s the situation with the contract? Can you cancel it or are you still inside the contract period? If you are, it might be worth paying the early termination fee and just cancelling it because he will stop paying if you’re not his doormat

Never answer his questions. That puts him in the 'authority' position. Instead, ask him a question in reply.
"Why do you ask?"
"Do you need to know that?"
"Why?"

I love this suggestion. It'll put him on the back foot.

Just a question, do you feel obliged to text him photos etc after last night so you can gauge whether he's in a mood with you and because he hasn't yet "responded?" Because you're worried about his reaction? I find myself doing that A LOT with another manipulator in my life. It's taken hours of therapy to even realise that's what I'm doing.

I'm really concerned as well about him telling your son that he will be staying with ex for a long time. This will be confusing and possibly worrying your little boy. He's abusing you by doing this, and i would have thought that using your child to abuse you, is also abuse of the child.

If i were you id put in your cms claim whether you need the money or not is irrelevant - first of all its your son's money, and second of all by not making these steps to formally sort out the money aside of things, perhaps you're inadvertently sending the message that this break up is only temporary.

Watch out for trying to manage him. Don't.

If I were you I would use Skype to set up a series of pre-booked meeting slots, e.g. 7 to 7.30 three nights a week.

For my kids when age 2 I would have needed it to be earlier in the day though. If you and he are both wfh how about setting up the calls for say 10am three days a week when DS is still chirpy and is maybe has toys or things out he and DH can chatter to each other about? That's then an even better reason to stop with the ridiculous number of videos and pictures.

As for the videos and pictures I'd put them on something like Flickr or a new private Insta with access granted only to family. I bet he barely looks at what you send as he does not seem genuinely interested in DS except as a tool to control you.

I used to text photos of our dc to my idiot ex, I'd not put any words but then it gave him no excuse to kick off.

This is about maintaining boundaries and doing what's best for you and your ds. But it's also about maintaining the moral high ground. You can bet your bottom dollar that if you treated him like he treats you, he'd sing from the rooftops about how awful you were.

Send the photos, but don't engage in any conversation

Send a text to him and MIL reminding them of the call. A simple 'just a reminder X and MIL, ds will be available for you both to video call at 7 tonight' but then don't engage in any conversation.

Do what you did last night which was awesome.

Speak to cms re child maintenance

Speak to a solicitor re divorce and financials

Push access via courts (as I know you said you were anyway)

Oh and did I mention, don't engage in conversation with him

@browzingss

I think @ChewChewIsMySpiritAnimal has pretty much answered this.

Just a question, do you feel obliged to text him photos etc after last night so you can gauge whether he's in a mood with you and because he hasn't yet "responded?"
Yes
Because you're worried about his reaction?
Yes and yes.

I sat and thought for a few minutes and yes you're so so right. That is exactly why.

And even though I was assertive last night I am falling back into the appeasement cycle of trying to guess his mood even remotely.

But you have just flagged this up massively to me. A big massive red flag.

I haven't seen anything to him at all today so far.

I think I will send a few pictures of DS in the afternoon and say.
"Hi Ex, vedeo call with DS will be tomorrow night at 7, your mother can join then if she would like to."

Send a separate text to MIL with picture and video and say,

"Hi MIL, we are doing a video call with DS on Fri night at 7, which you are welcome to join. Ex said you couldn't make the video call I had planned last night, which was a shame."

Last one maybe PA dig at ex, but honestly think he hadn't told her anything about call at all.

Can I just say you handled last night's Facetime stupendously well? And reassure you that having done it once, next time will be easier?

You posted "The silence is weird and unnerving to be honest." I'd hazard that this is what it is intended to be. He's tried all his usual tactics to bring you back to heel and they haven't worked. He's bound to try new tactics to see if they will. All you have to do is not rise to any bait, usual or unusual.

Whilst I can see that texting his mother that she can join the Facetime if he adds her somewhat breaks the grey rock approach; I might be tempted to do it just to sow some discord between the two. Would she be so vehemently on his side if she knew he was keeping her out of the loop? Probably, but she might give him some grief alongside it.

JuneJuly posted earlier that "He's probably told his mother that DS misses him so much that he's in tears every night when he sees him on Facetime & never wants to say goodbye, or some such baloney."
It's very possible. Another reason why he wouldn't want her involved in the Facetimes (and a good reason to have her on them).

Will also be looking into CMS today, thanks all x

I've rtft, and you've done so well but please DO NOT send any more pictures! Does he need daily pics? No. Make him appreciate the calls more - he may actually interact with DS a bit more on them. Tell him you will send some 'highlight' photos/videos each weekend from the week. Then stick to 2/3 calls each week.
I would be tempted to let MIL know about the call just this once. As soon as she's realised what he's been saying re her and calls she may well have words! Plus, you can arrange the next on the video call so he has no excuses!

I think that you need to stop the daily pictures.

As your ds grows older, he will find this intrusive. And it's a way of your ex controlling you from a distance, because when you take the photo, you still have ex in your head, and also when you send him the pictures. Even sending a picture once a week is plenty!

It's hard to get them out of your head. The easiest way is to set rules for yourself, as it'll take a long time to get free of their control.

Maybe try rules like this?

1. We are only going to communicate about ds or finances. (So you ignore everything else and shut down conversation about anything else)

2. I don't need to respond to everything he texts me (see rule 1)

3. I only need to answer actual questions, not accusations or threats. And only those that fit rule 1

4. it's not my job to be his secretary, his therapist or his fixer. If his relationships with ds or others suffer, that's because of his choices.

5. It's not my job to please or help his relatives. Those are his relationships to manage and he can do that in his own time (this means when he has contact, he can help them have contact during that time)

6. When I feel like I want to contact him or send him pictures, I'll take a breath, recognise that I'm feeling anxious about his reaction, and then do something to keep my mind busy, rather than contracting him.

All I can say re his lack of contact today is enjoy the silence, don’t let it frighten you.

Spot on Wrybread.
he has monopolised your every waking moment today ,even when he hasn't sent a text.
It won't be immediate, but you will & are breaking free of his emotional abuse, as you have been given the tools here, you can spot your knee jerk responses (he says" jump", you ask "how high" ?) & say, er, "No, actually ! KOKO

Op you spend far far too much time and head space on abusive people.
He is an ex for a reason.
Try and embrace your new life instead of continuing to try and please such a twat.. No court will order daily updates /calls /pics etc on your ds to him...

"which was a shame."

Might not put that bit in or say that she's welcome to join tbh.

More an FYI as to when something is happening-join or not.

Yes yes to @Wrybread suggestion of a list of rules for YOU.
You can only control how you behave/react, as so, with a simple set of rules, any contact from him AT ALL can be filtered through the rules.
Now, when you see a message, you know already how to respond because you have rules. No thinking, planning, managing his emotions.
You could even go so far as to have a pre-set list of bland, grey rock responses.
If you are really, really strict, he may even wonder if it's you or a lawyer/parent/auto response system 😈

That's a really helpful list @Wrybread, thank you.

Am going to print that

@diddl

Yes, maybe best to leave that out. Don't want to either be PA or encourage further conversation.

‘I will maybe just say that doesn't work for us today, DS is very grumpy again with teething.’

No. Don’t explain. It is not a debate. Be polite, brief and factual only.

‘Next call is 7pm Thursday. Mil can join’

Yes @Mix56

He is still managing to monopolise my thoughts even with silence.

You know, I thought I was ok without going to counselling/therapy about all this (by myself) but I'm not am I?

As a PP said earlier, he really has done a number on me hasn't he.

I look back to 6 years ago (before we got married) and think, that woman was a different person. Need to find/rebuild that person I guess.

“That doesn’t suit me” to your xdh

Call your x mil if it suits. Drop the call if you need to.