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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think most women wouldn't want to go back to their 20s and date men of today

260 replies

penelopepitstopsgain · 11/03/2020 21:01

Now I don't look at the past with rose tinted glasses as I'm sure sexual deviants have existed since time began, however having read this story today of grime artist, solo 45, being convicted of horrific sexual assaults on multiple partners which included waterboarding, threatening with guns and beating for sexual gratification it struck me how, in a relatively short period of time, sexual boundaries have been pushed to breaking point for many women with practices such as strangulation and slapping seen by many as vanilla sex.

I would never want to go back to my 20s and face dating todays' porn inspired men and feel very sad for young women having to navigate this.
If you would love to go back to your 20s and date = YABU
If you would rather stick pins in your eyes= YANBU

OP posts:
Needhelp101 · 11/03/2020 21:45

I date a lot of younger men (not looking for anything serious, just safe fun).

Maybe I've been lucky but I've also, like @XDownwiththissortofthingX, never come across anyone like "the porn-crazed, deviant, sexually violent men that Mumsnet insists are the norm nowadays." I find you can weed out the misogynists pretty early on.

My young men have been kind, sweet and supportive, some I've been seeing as FWB for years.

Some do watch a lot of porn though, tbf. But they're also very hot on getting STI tests and using condoms. They also don't give a shit about middle-aged spread or pubic hair (thankfully!).

AsAnActualWoman · 11/03/2020 21:45

Torture porn wasn't accessible to all 20 years ago. Nor was the norm for women to be crying. I read an article that a young man thought his girlfriend would like to be choked so he did it. She let him because she thought he liked it. Neither wanted to.
I'm in my 30s and faced the pressure to allow boyfriends to do anal when I was a young woman. I'll stick to women if I'm ever single again.

FortunesFave · 11/03/2020 21:46

Men in the 80s and 90s were hardly Prince Charming OP! Most of them grew up in a world where porn was normalised...I remember shocking sexism.

CherryPavlova · 11/03/2020 21:47

I think there is no evidence base for that at all Reginabambina. I think times haven’t changed so much that most men have become monsters. I think the best idea is to not sleep with someone until you know what sort of person they are.
Inevitably, promiscuous behaviour is more likely to mean you see more deviant sexual behaviour - just on law of averages. I don’t see the girls remaining in long term relationships with someone who was a porn-crazed, sex obsessed creep.

Siameasy · 11/03/2020 21:47

I’ve even told DH look if something happens to you I can’t be arsed to ever have another relationship. It’s all completely over rated. I’m at peak pornification of women now
I’ve also told him I’m done with excessive shaving. I’m going back to early 90s beaver. I’ve not shaved my legs this year either.

AsAnActualWoman · 11/03/2020 21:49

@Lockheart look up Political Lesbianism, awful phrase but some women do choose to stop having relationships with males, and might choose to be celibate.
Bisexual women might decide to be a Febfem - Female Exclusive Bisexual Female (or similar).

NotJust3SmallWords · 11/03/2020 21:51

I'm pretty young (31) and married, but most of the blokes I know seem pretty normal and respectful. I'm not sure you can judge something like this on one person.
Most of my colleagues who are 20 plus years older have told me that things like sexual harassment in the workplace was much much worse when they were my age.

Bouledeneige · 11/03/2020 21:51

My DD is nearly 20 and the boys/young men she dates are just starting out like her. They're having sex sure, they know more about the healthiness of enjoying it but they are not especially pressured to pornographic extremes. They are still human.

Lockheart · 11/03/2020 21:52

@AsAnActualWoman I'm aware of the phenomenon, but I would argue that if a woman enters into a relationship with a woman then they're not straight are they?

I don't think straight women are being turned gay by shit men.

crystal1717 · 11/03/2020 21:53

I hope most men aren't like that.
However I think the decline in people meeting in friendship groups in pubs and clubs has contributed. In those days it was well known that if you met someone online he was likely to be unsavoury dangerous in a not good way.
Society and humans are designed to meet irl to use social cues. From the start. You could tell from first glance across a room if they were a nice guy or a creep. Creeps do above horrific imo things.

Needhelp101 · 11/03/2020 21:53

Oh, and just because they ask for the more 'niche aspects', doesn't mean they get it. I explain that I don't like it, and they accept with good grace, because they are gentlemen.

Awful men have always been around, sadly. Don't tar every young person with the same brush.

thefemalelemur · 11/03/2020 21:55

I would bloody hate it, and I can understand why my dd doesn't bother much with dating. It's just all so vague. In my day you liked someone, you asked them out and if they said yes they were your boyfriend and that was that. All this "we are dating, but not seeing each other" or "seeing each other, but not In a relationship" bollocks. I couldn't cope with the uncertainty of dating someone who was also dating other people, the pressure must be immense.

Linning · 11/03/2020 21:56

I am still in my 20's so I am biased BUT I can't, for the love of me, imagine wanting to grow up before my era (not that the world is currently a great place). If you look at History and especially Women History, whilst violence against women is still very much a thing in 2020, it is way better to be a woman in 2020 than in 1930, let alone before.

Domestic and sexual violence towards a spouse was so common and normalized, a couple of decades ago, sex was seen as owed to a spouse and putting your lady back in her place was something that was seen as acceptable to do or even, expected. Women had very little rights and it's incredibly unlikely that law would have been on their side had they tried to prosecute their rapists or abusers so YABVU, in which era do you feel women had it best?

Yes we have porn, violent porn at that but we also have rights, the mentalities are also changing so that rape/domestic violence, isn't the glorified thing it once was (though more still need to be done). And I speak as someone who has been on the receiving hand of sexual assaults/violence (though not by partners).

I am a lesbian but I have had sex with 20yo men and for the most part, the most drastic thing they wanted to do was anal (barely something outrageous), yes some probably had pre-conceived ideas about sex, and I am sure plenty more had pre-conceived ideas about what a women's body should look like, but despite the fact that I have never enjoyed any of the consensual sex I have had with men, none of them ever made me feel threatened or tried to choke me/slap me/electocute me during sex and, had they been into that, they would have 100% talked about it with me. So what you are talking about is assault/rape and it's not what the average guy is like but is definitely what some guys are like and have been like probably since guys have been around on this planet.

What you are failing to take into consideration though, is that women have more say in what's done during sex than they did a couple of years/decade(s) ago. Now their desire/wishes/needs matter and they know it and they all don't want vanilla sex. More women than ever push boundaries of sex because they WANT TO, because they like it, because it's now socially acceptable for them to ask for it. So yes, I know plenty of girls my age who are into BDSM and get chocked/slapped/tied up during sex, consensually (!), because that's what they want, and most of those girls are lesbians, so most definitely not influenced nor cohersed by men at all. I have actually probably had way more non-vanilla sex with women, than I have had with men. So that says something.

Now are some women still cohersed and forced into violent sex by men (or women)? Yes. But then when in history did women happen to never be raped or cohersed into having sex and violented? And which era would you happily travel back to?

Also you might want to consider that while the notion of finding pleasure in violence during sex is unconceivable to you, it's very much a thing for some people and because you can't ever imagine yourself doing it, doesn't mean that everyone who does it is automatically cohersed. You wouldn't pay me to have sex with a man (now or in another era) but it doesn't mean everyone who has sex with them is cohersed into doing so.

I voted YABU because I feel way more sad for any woman before me who automatically had way less protection or rights than I do and as a 20-something lesbian of color, there is no other era I could have survived better than this one.

Dinosforall · 11/03/2020 21:58

OP why are you using as the basis of your argument that men are becoming more deviant someone who has now been convicted of raping four women and for whom the judge ordered a psychiatric report?? He's hardly the average bloke on the street.

Alsohuman · 11/03/2020 22:01

When I was in my 20s men were only too grateful to get a fuck. I feel desperately sorry for young women today, no wonder there are so many of them with mental health issues.

Littlebookwormiam · 11/03/2020 22:02

I'm 30 dating a 26 year old man. He's very mature for his age, doesn't go out drinking, works his arse off etc so there are men in their 20s out there who are true gentlemen but most of his friends (early-late 20s) are absolute tools and I struggle in their company due to their immaturity and they way view women. My DP might view women the same way but is not open about it, who knows, but he has one friend that was screwing 3 women at the same time and two of them fell pregnant, managed to persuade one to abort while he's now a father to the second.
Another friend routinely filters through his Facebook and Instagram feed looking for photos women he follows that he can masturbate too. He showed my DP and myself his stash of downloaded photos! And another (25 year old) is in regular contact with 16/17 year old girls on snapchat, They're legal so it's absolutely fine apparently!. I feel sick even thinking about it. The worst bit is that they feel no shame and think it's completely normal!
I'm not much older but I don't know anyone who's 30+ who does these kind of things, I'm sure there are a few but still it's revolting!

Linning · 11/03/2020 22:13

@penelopepitstopsgain

Cros- posted with you OP, but as a lesbian, the suggestion that the rise in ''Lesbianism'' is due to shit men is offensive at best.

Lesbians are women who are EXCLUSIVELY romantically attracted to women.

If a woman get sick of men but has the ability to fall in love with them and be attracted to them and they would be her ideal if they ''weren't so shit'' they AREN'T lesbians. If they also have the ability to like women then they are obviously bisexuals (not lesbians!) which still wouldn't mean much as data has shown that women sexuality IS very much fluid so it wouldn't be them switching to women due to men but men pushing them to discover a side of their sexuality that was already there.
If a woman forces herself to date a woman despite not liking them just because she is sick of men then she is still straight, just a person who thinks it's okay to play with other people's feelings because she's been hurt by men. Still not a lesbian.

The rise in lesbianism as nothing to do with men (surprise!) but everything to do with a change in society and how society perceives sexuality and an increase in gay rights and acceptance from others towards us. 20 years ago, it wasn't as safe to be gay, you see more people come out, not because it's a trend (if you are straight it is NOT a sustainable trend!) but because you can now be out without fearing to become a pariah of society as much or to be associated with AIDS and else. Again, there is no better time to be out than now, so yes you see older people ''suddenly'' coming out, and younger generation being out early, not because of men, but because they don't need to live closeted anymore.

Flymetothetoon · 11/03/2020 22:35

No I wouldn't but I'm a dinosaur. I went nightclubbing 'til 2 am and WALkED 3 miles with my 3 pals home. Different times 🤷‍♀️

BodiesMakeForGoodFertiliser · 11/03/2020 22:46

I think it’s more about the content. 10 years ago anal and chocking were a bit niche.
Erm. Surprise. It was actually well known. And spanking.

I can't believe the lesbian thing here😐 Seriously? So offensive

ALongHardWinter · 11/03/2020 22:57

Oh dear God, no! So many young men nowadays (not all,I know,but a fair proportion) are obsessed with porn, and seem to base their attitude to women on it. They expect all women to be totally hair free and into anal sex or whatever it is that they're into. It doesn't seem to occur to them that in real life,the majority of women aren't like that. Although I expect someone will be along shortly to berate me because I don't think it's necessary to to remove every single last hair from my body.....
And I think that online dating apps have a lot to answer for. I don't think any men,young OR older,use them to meet a woman with a viedw to a LTR.They use them merely to (hopefully) get regular sex.

LameSword · 11/03/2020 23:01

Yanbu. I blame porn.

Lockheart · 11/03/2020 23:05

@ALongHardWinter I've been using dating apps for several years and I've had long term relationships and one night stands from them. I am now just 30, and I tend to date men of my age. Currently I am in a relationship which is just shy of a year old with someone I met on Tinder, but I have also used Bumble and Hinge.

No-one has expected me to be hair free, or asked for it, or shamed me for not being.

No-one has asked me for anal sex.

No-one has tried to choke me.

No-one has sprung any kinks on me by surprise.

I agree that widespread porn is damaging. I agree porn is much more easily accessible nowadays and is likely to be more extreme.

I do not agree that most young men are some sort of rabid porn-sick deviants who abuse women sexually and who are incapable of having normal relationships. My personal experience (and there's quite a bit of it, not to put too fine a point on it), does not bear this out at all.

BodiesMakeForGoodFertiliser · 11/03/2020 23:29

I am with you @Lockheart

I am curious how old the "young men are obsessed with no hair and anal now" brigade is and where are they getting their "data"Hmm

But then again. I am sure their elders were moaning exactly same way about the deviant youth and we might once do the same

PickAChew · 11/03/2020 23:32

You've sort of negated your title with your mention of Solo - I'm 50 and he's only a year younger than DH.

Plenty of pervs around back in my day, too. They were just brushed under the carpet.

Fatted · 11/03/2020 23:37

Well OP, I can assure you that 'Sexual deviants' were around when time began. I prefer the terms rapists and abusers though.

I wouldn't want to be in my 20's now because of social media and the pressure to look like a Kardashian. Nothing to do with men. Technically, I'd actually met my DH when I was 21, so didn't do a lot of dating back then anyway!!

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