To think most women wouldn't want to go back to their 20s and date men of today

[penelopepitstopsgain]

Now I don't look at the past with rose tinted glasses as I'm sure sexual deviants have existed since time began, however having read this story today of grime artist, solo 45, being convicted of horrific sexual assaults on multiple partners which included waterboarding, threatening with guns and beating for sexual gratification it struck me how, in a relatively short period of time, sexual boundaries have been pushed to breaking point for many women with practices such as strangulation and slapping seen by many as vanilla sex.

I would never want to go back to my 20s and face dating todays' porn inspired men and feel very sad for young women having to navigate this.
If you would love to go back to your 20s and date = YABU
If you would rather stick pins in your eyes= YANBU

Anal has clearly been around since the year dot. I think the difference is that when I was 20 it absolutely wasn't as common and considered normal as it is now.

Just to clarify ... I'm not saying anal between truly consenting adults is abnormal. More it requires extreme trust, delicacy and for the man to care about the comfort and safety of his partner. Most young men have the delicacy of a bull in a china shop, hence the alarming injuries many young girls end up with.

I was very fortunate to be in my 20’s during the 1970’s. The Women’s Liberation movement was very active. Even mainstream magazines ran articles on female orgasm and guides for men on how to locate the clitoris. Our boyfriends were gentle long haired hippie types, who swapped books with each other on how to please women in bed.
Being a “real man” or a sex “stud” meant being able to give your girlfriend multiple orgasms, not throttle her half to death while buggering her.
Without the internet, our main reference text was “The Joy of Sex” by Dr Comfort, a gentle and sensual review of positions and practices to enhance enjoyment for both parties.
I have never remarried in the 28 years since DH died - and I am certainly thankful I never had to cope with today’s violent, porn damaged young chaps.

h3av3n
Jesus, 14? I cannot believe a girl that age genuinely wanted or enjoyed that. No fucking way. My DD isn't far off that age, she's so tiny and slight. These boys are literally seeing a hole when they look at our girls. Just a piece of meat.

Or maybe I'm just an old prude

Babdoc yes - I imagine the men this thread is discussing wouldn't have a clue how to give pleasure back. And probably don't care coz it's All About Them.

Exceptionally well articulated, Babdoc. Absolutely right.

I'm sorry for your experiences @h3av3n. But I'm not sure there are reliable statistics showing that there has been an increase in sexual assaults or rapes what are you talking about in particular? I know reporting of these offences has gone up in the UK, but isn't that thought to be because more people are coming forward rather than because in the olden days no one was getting raped? I also wonder in what context you have been approached by 13 year olds? Presumably you are 18+ if you have been doing cam work? I have a friend who was doing escort work in the 00s and she also had a very dim view of men I wonder if doing sex work exposes you to the worst of mankind.

@h3av3n

I hate to say this, but I think you need to seriously evaluate the type of people you are having sex with. Anal is not the norm, neither is choking or face slapping, or whatever else you describe.

I get to know the people I intend to sleep with before I do it. I get to know what they like and I don't have sex with them if we are not compatible or I don't trust them. Its not full proof and nothing in life is. You could be married 20 years and 1 day he flips around and rapes you. But...I just...I'm sorry you've had the experiences you have. But you cannot extrapolate your experiences to mean the norm. It's not.

I've spoken to a good number of younger women about this and what I've noticed is that the more stereotypically attractive they are, i.e. long blonde hair, long legs/small waist etc, the more they encounter this type of behaviour. I guess that would be a warning against what some feminists refer to as 'performing femininity.'

Obviously women should be able to go anywhere within their daily lives without encountering harassment, but that is not the reality we're living in. I was really surprised in one conversation listening to a mid-twenties woman complaining about constant sexual harassment while she had on blonde hair extensions past her backside, huge fake eyelashes, a half a tube of lipgloss and a low cut top with a push up bra. I am not in any way suggesting she deserved or was looking to be harassed, but I wondered did she realise that she was presenting herself as most porn actresses do before they take their clothes off? Young men her own age, raised on a diet of porn, will look at her and make that connection, regardless whether they or she are consciously aware of it or not.

How to discuss this with younger women I wonder, without making them feel as if they are responsible for inviting this BS into their relationships and their lives?

YANBU.

@h3av3n
very well said.

‘I've spoken to a good number of younger women about this and what I've noticed is that the more stereotypically attractive they are, i.e. long blonde hair, long legs/small waist etc, the more they encounter this type of behaviour. I guess that would be a warning against what some feminists refer to as 'performing femininity.'‘

Having long legs and a small waist are markers of health. They do not mean someone is performing femininity.

@h3av3n I agree with you and I believe you. The world has most definitely devolved in this regard. Most women don't know it however because of a number of factors: Most women fall outside of porn's perceived 'fuckability' range of mid teens to mid twenties. Most women don't work in rape relief shelters/sexual assault units, most women are not in pornography/prostitution, and, crucially, most women don't watch porn.

The only thing that's scarier to me than the international reach of PornHub and its influence on the psyche's of a whole global generation of young men is the unsuspecting attitude of women, who genuinely don't see what's going on in the world. There is a push in the United States to have the effects of pornography declared a public health crisis, and when you look a little more deeply into this it is easy to see why.

Having long legs and a small waist are markers of health. They do not mean someone is performing femininity.

Of course they don't. I go on to describe 'performing femininity' (not a phrase I use myself btw) in the following paragraph.

I disagree about certain ‘types’ attracting this behaviour.
Both myself and dds have experienced unwanted verbal assaults whilst wearing our most ‘ non sexual outfits’ for want of a better word.
Wearing joggers, no make up, flat shoes, hair scraped back in a ponytail going about out daily business, in broad daylight.
Completely unwarranted sexual comments etc.
Stop victim blaming.
My dd is still at college and looks younger than she is.
She says the stares from older men and them trying to approach her and engage with her in an unwarranted, uninvited way are relentless.
Only yesterday an older man asked her to move her bags so that he could sit right next to her on the bus.
The bus was virtually empty. She told him no , good for her. The fucker didn’t like it but had to sit somewhere else.
She said she wanted another passenger to help her and come to her rescue.
The creepy fucker. It’s beyond a fucking joke.

I first became sexually active in the 70s. Back then men took a pride in the skill at cunnilingus and anal was unheard of. Public hair stayed where it grew, though most women trimmed our bikini line.

I had a wild time when I was young. Many happy memories.

I hate anal. Won't do it. And as for choking, slapping or spitting, I wouldn't stand for it for a moment.

I disagree about certain ‘types’ attracting this behaviour... Stop victim blaming.

"Types" and "Attracting" are not words I have used or would use. Yes I agree this behaviour is widespread, but from what I've seen some women experience it more than others. Young women need to know that the images they've been exposed to throughout their lives from our hypersexualised media have bled into the mainstream from pornography. This is not to engage in "victim blaming' - it's to give them the tools to understand the world they're forced to navigate.

@h3av3n I think this is what prompted me to start this thread - the normalisation of extreme sexual behavior is increasingly justified as either;

a) It's always been this way, we are just talking about it more
b) Some women actually like it so stop infantilising us
c) Not all men are like this - my sons are lovely

The fact is that no one actually commissions studies to look at this so we only have anecdotal evidence based on our own experiences and the odd case that makes court.

I can definitely attest that things seem a lot worse than before.

Dating mid 2000s, anal sex was looked on as seriously yuk and if i'd suggested it to any partners they would have ran a mile.. likewise strangulation, slapping etc... guys were over the moon to just get their end away... now they come with a laundry list of expectations and the added risk of it being captured on camera to be shared

not sure the case of one sadistic torturer is enough to generalise about all men in their 20s today

now they come with a laundry list of expectations and the added risk of it being captured on camera to be shared
do they? How would you even know?

this thread is puzzling.

The fact is that no one actually commissions studies to look at this

Thankfully that's not the case anymore penelopepitstopsgain, studies are underway in the United States, because the situation has escalated to the point where they're simply necessary.

@MunaZaldrizoti for young people, those things ARE the norm. Of course they are, mainstream regular 'not extreme' porn has themes of coercion, rape and almost always some form of violence. I wonder how old you are and how you know for sure that these things aren't the norm for young people? All of my peers would agree with me that these things are the norm....

@JustInCaseCakeHappens you really haven't heard of 'revenge porn'? It's very widespread...

I don’t think being raped and tortured is something that happens to every woman so I find this post a little bit odd really... I’ve just turned 30 and can confirm I’ve never been raped or sexually assaulted. I had one abusive boyfriend years ago when I was in my late teens, he didn’t rape me though.

‘I've spoken to a good number of younger women about this and what I've noticed is that the more stereotypically attractive they are, i.e. long blonde hair, long legs/small waist etc, the more they encounter this type of behaviour. I guess that would be a warning against what some feminists refer to as 'performing femininity.'’

Here’s your first paragraph again. ‘That would be a warning’ refers to what you have already written, not what you write next.

It sounds like victim blaming of attractive women.

"revenge porn" yes, but it's hardly new. Social media has changed the way it's done, but it's not a modern concept.

People like Ted Bundy existed before I was even born, doesn't mean all the dates my generation had in their 20s were inspired by him.

for young people, those things ARE the norm.
Honestly, you do have issues, of course it's not the norm!

@penelopepitstopsgain
But no one is talking about verbally sexually demeaning words or behaviour in public. We are talking about sex. You cannot actually believe that 30 years ago men didn't make comments like that, can you?

@h3av3n

I said previously that I am in my 20s. And I also said previously that thinking today is worse than 30 years ago (when marital rape and sexual harassment in the workplace and domestic violence were par for the course) is nonsense.