To think that some Mumsnetters hate men?

[Ruby8719]

Am I being unreasonable to think that some (not all) mumsnetters hate men and can’t wait to jump in and tell women to leave their husbands?

Obviously there are a lot of stories on here about husbands/boyfriends/dads that sound like arseholes but the amount of comments I see from strangers telling women to leave their men for making a mistake is crazy!!

That's stupid and really racist of you, Always, to draw an instant parallel between black people and toxic, misogynist men. Racist to use black people as your 'aha!' moment. It doesn't work.

I’m just questioning which forms of discrimination are acceptable and which aren’t. I don’t think racism, sexism, homophobia or any discrimination or acceptable in civilised society. You?

I’m just questioning which forms of discrimination are acceptable and which aren’t. I don’t think racism, sexism, homophobia or any discrimination or acceptable in civilised society. You?

Classic.

Why are men always compared, by some people, to oppressed classes, rather than oppressors.

All oppression is bad, by all people who indulge in it. Whether that’s toxic misogynists, racists, or MN sexists. MN is peculiar though because discrimination seems to be acceptable.

Your view is that women as a class oppress, and have historically oppressed, men as a class.

Okey dokey

I don't hate men but I do feel that they place a lot of restrictions on my life. Every single incident of violence, sexual violence or harrassment that has affected me adversely has been from a man. Every time.

• I can't go out for a walk at midnight, or after dark really. Why? Because of men. I can imagine a world where I could go out any time, and it is so freeing. It would be incredible.
• I can't leave my drink at a bar, I need to take it into the loo with me. Why? Men.
• On a bus, I don't sit upstairs and I make sure to sit by the driver. Why? Groups of men.
• Going into a car park, I always assess who is in there. Why? Men. I was assaulted on a car park.

There are so many, many examples, those are only a few. It can be terrifying. I don't want to live my life not living, or altering things, but realistically I have to. The town centre which I live near to is simply not safe enough on an evening, after dark. It isn't women I'm afraid of. It's borne out of the experiences I've had with men, some worse than others. It's thinking things would be OK and venturing out, to have a friend of a friend put his hands down my jeans and try to put them into my underwear and then to make out it was my fault because they're low cut and 'falling off' (they weren't). It's the constant low level of threat. So no, I don't hate men, and I have some friends who are men. But I do hate some men, and more than anything, I hate that I have to alter my life and I can't be free to do all of the things I really want to do. And the reason is men.

Always no I don't think any of those things are acceptable. Then again I'm not sexist. If you want to address real sexism, then why not quote actual instances of sexism you've seen and then challenge it?

@BuzzShitbagBobbly

I think it's depressing that promoting gender equality is seen as "Virtual Signalling". Perhaps it's a sign of the world we're in and why things are the way they are?

@skybluee

And let's face. That's just not right and shouldn't be the case. It has to change.

Gender equality = sort out men's problems for them before we are allowed to work to help women

Gender equality = my old work, 40% + pay gap, majority white non disabled male, new gender network inaugural talk, question #1, hasn't this all gone too far prioritising certain groups and white men are now discriminated against.

From a woman.

I'm not joking, I wish I was..

We're never going to get anywhere with 'gender equality' if women are framed as the oppressors of men !

Are we really back to that ridiculous argument that says a woman who has had a bad experience with a man and is now wary and distrustful of men, is prejudiced in the same way a White supremacist is towards black people?

Jesus Christ. And look up what oppression actually is, people

Yes. Of course.

Also women in general are being like white supremacists when they talk about statistical risk of men v women

And basically anything else that paints men as a class as anything less than 100% awesome.

Yes and unless you make A Very Deliberate Point of saying how you are anti "isms" you must be an awful pro-ism, "aha, gotcha!" type person.

Bonus points for a wide-eyed, "who, little old me?!" tone to such comments.

It's not even amusingly transparent anymore, just tediously so.

The thing is that the ideas around talking about , combating discrimination, intersectionality were v useful.

But of course they've been nabbed and turned around by the class who weren't happy at being left out

But of course they've been nabbed and turned around by the class who weren't happy at being left out

Wah wah poor me(n)!

It's not a case of "poor me(n)". I'm believe that gender equality remains depressingly out of reach when people, of either gender, continue to promote sexism.

The 40% pay gap is outrageous. I hope you went to a tribunal @FrogsFrogs

I'm sorry if people don't like having it pointed out that sexism is just as stupid as racism. Deciding you hate "men" is as brain dead as deciding you hate "black people" or "gays" or whatever arbitrary group you've decided to focus on. Reactionary politics, that you see espoused here on MN, do more damage to the ideal of equality between all peoples than help it.

@skybluee good post. There is constant vigilance. And then the knowledge that if something happens, some people will say it was my own fault.

"
The 40% pay gap is outrageous. I hope you went to a tribunal @FrogsFrogs"

It was the gender pay gap thing, public data. The 40% is not bad for my industry.

I was paid less than the men actually that I worked with directly as well so I left.

Remember when the govt decided you had to pay to take it to tribunal and claims for sex discrimination went through the floor, and the fee was found illegal by the courts? That sort of thing is how structural discrimination is perpetrated. The glib oh individual women can go to tribunal is the response of someone who isn't actually interested in combating structural issues.

Here's a link that I doubt you'll read www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/money/2017/jul/26/union-supreme-court-fees-unfair-dismissal-claims

Oh I see you've compared men in terms of oppression to black people and 'gays' (!!!).

Lol and more lol

There isn't a country in the world where men experience oppression at the hands of women.

To paint men as an oppressed class is in itself a statement of rank misogyny.

I'm sorry if people don't like having it pointed out that sexism is just as stupid as racism. Deciding you hate "men" is as brain dead as deciding you hate "black people" or "gays" or whatever arbitrary group you've decided to focus on. Reactionary politics, that you see espoused here on MN, do more damage to the ideal of equality between all peoples than help it.

Back to Debating 101 for you, I’m afraid

I'm going to disagree. SOME men think they are better than woman and see us as second class citizens.
I look down on those "men" and all other males who agree with them.
I often think too many women are scared to be on their own so put up with alot from their partners, they get so used to coming second in life its what the expect, it's what their dc see is normal and the cycle continues.

Always women having experience based fear of men and their behaviour IS NOT SEXISM. Therefore can't be compared to racism AT ALL.

You do realise there will be some survivors of abuse reading your comments, don't you? Would you really tell them they were being brain dead, discriminatory and prejudiced? In reality there are very, very few women, even amongst this group who hate men as a class however even those that do will display this behaviour in a very different way than a man who hates women would. There's a high chance he will kill a woman or seriously harm one, at some point, just to show how much he hates us.