To think that some Mumsnetters hate men?

[Ruby8719]

Am I being unreasonable to think that some (not all) mumsnetters hate men and can’t wait to jump in and tell women to leave their husbands?

Obviously there are a lot of stories on here about husbands/boyfriends/dads that sound like arseholes but the amount of comments I see from strangers telling women to leave their men for making a mistake is crazy!!

Sex of perpetrators and victims is irrelevant

As it applies to an individuals personal and specific situation, absolutely correct.

Stats are made by counting individuals.

This handwaving away of male violence is really interesting.

Have you never watched women, particularly groups of drunk middle aged women when out at night?

Cool ageism there. How dare women over 40 appear tipsy in public. It's an affront to decency.

Cool ageism there. How dare women over 40 appear tipsy in public. It's an affront to decency

Nobody said anything of the sort.

Take for instance my ex-wife. She is diagnosed NPD. Statistically, more men are NPD than women, but that statistic is meaningless and irrelevant to my situation, or if applied to my situation, it put my situation into the minority, but that doesn't minimize or negate my sample size of one.

She ran the entire gamut of abuse, including sexual and physical. Again, the statistical probabilities and class analysis applied to my specific situation are meaningless, because in my situation, there was a sample size of exactly one.

I suppose it could be stretched that the chances of her actually seriously injuring or killing me were slim because statistics show that to be true, however, when she is waving a broken wine bottle in my face because I told her I was not going to work overtime that week, class analysis and statistics were zero solace.

Also, only a person who truly believed that we already had complete equality between the sexes would give their son and daughter exactly the same advice about strip clubs and pornography and sexual activity.

You keep saying this. Please tell me what advice you give to your children about strip clubs, pornography and sexual activity?

And how does that advice differ for boys and girls?

samyeagar

That illustrates my point. Statistics and class analysis are irrelevant when discussing your situation.

It's no wonder men can't get help when in domestic abuse situations if they're going to be met with "well women have it worse".

I say: you never know if the women working there have been trafficked, and you can’t know, so don’t support that industry. This applies to my sons more than my daughters, because stag nights and strip clubs go hand in hand.

I say the same for pornography, with the added caveat to my sons that choking women or spitting on them or degrading them is not normal practice. I tell them that choking can very easily lead to death and it’s important to remember that due to their size and strength they can easily do irreversible damage. I talk to them about enthusiastic consent ie no coercion or sulking. That no means no.

I can sense that you’re going to say ‘but women go to strip clubs too!’ and so on, but honestly don’t bother - I am not interested in pretending that an equal amount of men and women are responsible for abuse. Because they’re not.

Did you honestly (like you said) give your son and daughter the same advice about periods? The same advice about how to stay safe on a night out? The same talk about consent and what that looks like? That would be...unusual. That must mean you really do see society as fully equal. Do you?

Did you honestly (like you said) give your son and daughter the same advice about periods? The same advice about how to stay safe on a night out? The same talk about consent and what that looks like? That would be...unusual. That must mean you really do see society as fully equal. Do you?

Err, yes I did. Why wouldn't I?

What different advice do you give about staying safe on a night out or consent?

Those most at risk on a night out are men. Why wouldn't I give advice about staying safe? Stay together, stay in well lit places, don't have valuables on display, get a taxi or phone us for a lift, don't walk home alone - relevant to both sexes.

Consent - informed and enthusiastic consent, don't do anything that you don't want to do - relevant to both sexes.

As for your talk about pornography, strip clubs and choking - sorry I find that weird.

Going to strip clubs is just not a thing in our circle of friends and family. Stag did are a meal out. Not a strip club. Talking about the women who work in strip clubs and appear in pornography is something we've had plenty of discussions around. Talking about pornography not bring a true representation of sex is a discussion we've had as a family. I don't need to tell my son anything different to my daughter.

Forgot about periods. Why shouldn't boys be taught the same stuff about periods as girls are? It's a natural function of a body, not a state secret.

'Imagine going on pistonheads or pornhub and asking the men to be nicer to women'

V v true.

I like the person up thread a bit trying to get someone to admit that because some men rape people all men should be assumed guilty (and presumably sent straight to prison with no trial). Yep yep totally that's what evil mners want!

Those most at risk on a night out are men. Why wouldn't I give advice about staying safe? Stay together, stay in well lit places, don't have valuables on display, get a taxi or phone us for a lift, don't walk home alone - relevant to both sexes.

That’s very sexist of you! What does it matter if more men are attacked on a night out? You surely wouldn’t be using men as a class there after all your talk of equality (meaning exactly the same)? What does it matter if more men are attacked?

Attacked by whom? And again: do you believe society is fully equal?

Those most at risk on a night out are men. Why wouldn't I give advice about staying safe? Stay together, stay in well lit places, don't have valuables on display, get a taxi or phone us for a lift, don't walk home alone - relevant to both sexes

Oh Yes.. Men are the biggest risk to both men and women.

Which is why I'm mildly curious with the Whataboutery that goes on. & spending hours talking about men men men, championing men, arguing with women about men💤. Ive never met any woman in real life who does that. It's all a bit yeah but no but

@FrogsFrogs I like the person up thread a bit trying to get someone to admit that because some men rape people all men should be assumed guilty

D'you mean me? I'm unclear on the pp's viewpoint so I'm asking questions to try to understand. Don't make it into a war between me and 'evil MNetters'. Don't put words/meanings into my mouth. My post was very clear.

The most at risk on a night out are men

Yeah, assault...by other men. So male violence. Then of course there's all the groping/sexual assaults and rapes committed against women, by men.
Male violence again.

Pumperthepumper

I really don't get you. You demand that I answer your questions (whilst you studiously avoid answering my questions) and then when I answer you act all incredulous.

You asked me, quite disbelieving, if I actually, really advised my son and daughter about staying safe on a night out. I answered and gave my rationale and now you're all "oh you're being sexist, you're using men as a class" blah blah blah.

You aren't interested in having any sort of discussion at all. You're just hurling insults and behaving like you're in the playground.

I have not once argued that there aren't men around who behave terribly. Of course there are. The difference is that I don't hold innocent men responsible for the crimes committed by the criminals. The people responsible for the crimes are the people who commit them.

Do you think we have equality between the sexes Hooves? Yes or no?

Those most at risk on a night out are men.

Who are these men of whom you speak? Should we wait for a punch to be sure?

Is there any such thing as male violence now anyone can be male? How does one know what advice to give which child?

This is one of the most risible conversations I've ever read.

Pumperthepumper

I've answered all of your questions so far, how about answering my question before demanding that I answer yet another of yours.

Which ones have I missed? Give me a list. Then please do answer this one, I’d love to know:

Do you think we have equality between the sexes Hooves? Yes or no?

You said this

Did you honestly (like you said) give your son and daughter the same advice about periods? The same advice about how to stay safe on a night out? The same talk about consent and what that looks like? That would be...unusual. That must mean you really do see society as fully equal. Do you?

And I asked why wouldn't you give them the same information/advice? Please explain why, and in what way, you would give them different advice

I already did! See my post at 16:55, it’s at the top of the page.

Do you think we have equality between the sexes Hooves? Are women and men completely equal in society?

WhatKaty you either live in an impenetrable bubble somewhere beyond this world, or you enjoy spectacularly and completely missing the point.

OK. Men and women are most at risk of danger from Penguins then..

Sorry, I see - you mean about periods. I’d give them different advice because periods affect my daughters bodies and, you know, she’s the one that goes through the hormone changes and whatnot. My sons know about periods but since periods happen to my daughters, they got more information and sympathy. I also occasionally buy tampons for them - not for my sons though. Is that sexist?

But why shouldn't your son's know exactly the same as your daughters about periods?

It doesn't take anything away from your daughters if you tell your son's the same information does it? Information isn't finite or limited - it doesn't run out if you tell multiple people.

Why shouldn't boys and girls receive the same information?

As regards equality - I don't know how we can measure it. In some areas men have more of an advantage, in other areas women have more of an advantage and in yet others both are the same. I don't know how we calculate who, if anyone, has the greatest advantage.