To think that some Mumsnetters hate men?

[Ruby8719]

Am I being unreasonable to think that some (not all) mumsnetters hate men and can’t wait to jump in and tell women to leave their husbands?

Obviously there are a lot of stories on here about husbands/boyfriends/dads that sound like arseholes but the amount of comments I see from strangers telling women to leave their men for making a mistake is crazy!!

that don't want to take responsibility for teaching their DCs the facts about DV and EA and sexual assault;

What facts do you think we haven't taught?

Consent
What a good relationship looks like
Respecting boundaries
Respecting opinions
Not crossing lines

You bring your children up to be decent people. I don't have to teach my son not to commit rape, or my daughter not to be abusive because those are things covered in the above.

Do you teach your children specifically not to stab people or not to set fire to their house? You teach about relationships and about being decent and having respect, for themselves and others. That's certainly what we did and it's served them well, thanks.

I can handle this, Angels, it's true. I've never assumed anyone hates men

My question was, do you believe that innocent men exist, and if so, do you think they should be judged negatively because guilty men exist

Well of course I think innocent men exist, what a weird question. Why on earth would you think I have no empathy or compassion for men unless you think that me taking about facts, means I hate men? Why have you asked me this question? Do you think I’m some kind of monster? Just bizarre.

I agree absolutely splippery

What @peakypolly says. I'm astonished that intelligent women can set the bar so low.
Perhaps Mumsnet AIBU should be required reading for young women
who should hold themselves in higher esteem and hold out for men who are worth having.

But that's never happened to me from a man either, so what does that prove?

Hear it proves you've been lucky. That's all.

I'm going to bow out of discussing with you as I'm not convinced your posts here aren't on the goady side. You are on a mission to disbelieve the shit that so many women put up with every day from puberty onwards because NAMALT and it's never happened to you.There are many good men but the actions of the others is a huge fucking problem.

TheMagiciansMewTwo

genius idea!!!

slipperywhensparticus

Do you apply that to all famous people who have died before being found guilty then, or is just because CF is a woman?

The fact is- that behaviour simply does not happen to the same extent the other way around. I have never ever heard of a man saying he was sexually harassed at work
Really *Mimi"? You see, I think that it does happen a lot, it's just that men are expected to accept it, or laugh it off. They won't report it or talk about it openly because they're meant to be "up for it" or should be flattered.

Have you never watched women, particularly groups of drunk middle aged women when out at night?

And my son has raised the issue at work and been laughed at, it's been made a joke of and even somewhat encouraged by other staff. Do you think that's ok?

Have you never watched women, particularly groups of drunk middle aged women when out at night

Yes, I have and they dont scare me half as much as a group of drunk aggressive men at 2am in the morning after coming out of a club. In fact, the only violence my male friends have ever experienced has been from OTHER MEN. One of my male friends was punched in the face by a guy on NY`E who was off his face.

grin genius idea!!!
Angels yy I think so. It would also make it easier for the taskforce that tracks online red pillers, incels, etc, to find them.
You can't argue with people who ignore facts. It's impossible. It's like trying to argue with flat-earthers. They run on 'belief' and emotion rather than facts and material reality. Sadly, they're a lost cause. Grey rock is absolutely the best policy although I understand the motivation to counter their dangerous and disingenuous arguments.

You can't argue with people who ignore facts. It's impossible. It's like trying to argue with flat-earthers. They run on 'belief' and emotion rather than facts and material reality. Sadly, they're a lost cause

Well said. Its very depressing and disheartening though

Mimi I know. Social media has been a complete eye-opener about how certain sections of 'society' think. I don't know anyone in RL (male or female) who would argue about the pay gap; about DV statistics; about the murder rate, etc. Luckily, I'm surrounded by people who still think facts matter.

Actually, the only people I have met who don't think facts matter were DV perpetrators (when I worked in that field). Gaslighting depends on a denial of facts too.

Are you objecting to women talking about men as a class by using your own sweeping stereotypes about sex.

I think gender is unimportant. It's as ridiculous as "whites" talking about "blacks" or "jews" talking about "christians", "gays" talking about "straights", "country people" talking about "gypsys" or any other arbitrary label you happen to want to apply.

There are good men, bad men, good women, bad women.

Try and complete the sentence:

All men and only men -
All women and only women -

I can't think of a single thing that goes into either one of those sentences. "Has the potential to give birth" doesn't even fit because transition male to female & female to male change that.

So why should gender effect anything? Even in what you might consider "clear cut" as men being physically stronger is incorrect. There are some women that are physically stronger than men and vice versa. As soon as you start talking about a "label" you are, by definition, make sweeping generalisations and imho unhelpfully so.

Sexism is something we've invented and need to uninvent to liberate society. So it goes back to my original point: I don't understand why a gender, so damaged by sexism, is so keen to actively promote it.

When posters are trying to argue that anyone who disagree with them are "dense", "not very bright" and the list goes on.. you know they are struggling

Sexism is something we've invented and need to uninvent to liberate society. So it goes back to my original point: I don't understand why a gender, so damaged by sexism, is so keen to actively promote it.

Because ignoring that violent crime is overwhelmingly committed by men means we can’t change it. We need to find the root cause (toxic masculinity, for the most part) and deal with it. Pretending that it’s just a coincidence because your husband is a nice man helps nobody.

Yes, I have and they dont scare me half as much as a group of drunk aggressive men at 2am in the morning after coming out of a club.

But your point was that men don't get sexually harassed at work - not about drunken violence.

The fact is that yes men do get sexually harassed at work but it isn't taken seriously.

Because ignoring that violent crime is overwhelmingly committed by men means we can’t change it. We need to find the root cause (toxic masculinity, for the most part) and deal with it. Pretending that it’s just a coincidence because your husband is a nice man helps nobody.

But no one has argued that.

In fact it's posters on your side who are making ridiculous arguments such as men don't suffer sexual harrassment at work or that Caroline Flacks boyfriend didn't get any abuse for reporting the assault.

Some men are violent. Majority of violent crime is committed by men. Neither of those facts mean that most men are violent.

You could not have this conversation around any other protected characteristic so how is it acceptable when it's based on sex?

Some men are violent. Majority of violent crime is committed by men. Neither of those facts mean that most men are violent.

Who is saying that most men are violent? The argument is whether or not all men (even the good ones) do enough to combat male violence. They don’t. And your argument is that men get different advice on here, but then you don’t acknowledge why that might be. In fact, your whole argument is ‘why aren’t men treated exactly the same as women?’ which has been explained to you. You just won’t admit to seeing it.

I hate women who cause lifelong psychological harm to their children because they refuse to see how their selfish choices are affecting their children, MUCH more than I hate men!

Jesus, the NAMALT club has been busy today.

I think tellme nailed it - it’s the compartmentalising. Depressingly few men seem to apply the thinking about it the women they know to other women. Their mothers, their daughters should be treated with respect and dignity but women on telly, women in general public, women in strip clubs? So much disrespect and sexism because “those women” don’t count.

Yes Redyellow. I've said it before. That's what my 'so predictable' comments are about. These threads are like nectar to them...or a klaxon goes off and they show up.
Claims to be a sexual health nurse yet spent days merailing a thread about cervical screening because they could not and would not accept why some women are only comfortable being intimately treated by female nurses. Called them all prejudiced.

Also, only a person who truly believed that we already had complete equality between the sexes would give their son and daughter exactly the same advice about strip clubs and pornography and sexual activity.

Or only a misogynist person would.

Ah as predicted,

Violence is a people problem
Sex of perpetrators and victims is irrelevant

That's so funny

Actually, in answer to the OP, I’m often struck by how lovingly posters refer to their husbands, sons and fathers on here.

Also, the advice to LTB often comes from women who are in good and happy heterosexual relationships, sometimes having experienced abuse in the past.

Deep down the NAMALTers are seeking male pproval. They may not be conscious of it but that’s what they’re doing. They feel good about themselves because they are ‘fair’ and ‘egalitarian’ and think women who criticise or even just fail to centre men are angry, bitter, etc. But male approval doesn’t protect against male violence, harassment, or any of the other consequences of being a woman in a patriarchy. You can’t argue yourself out of reality.

Men, as a class, hate women a lot more than we hate them and with much less justification.

Imagine going on pistonheads or pornhub and asking the men to be nicer to women. If you can’t imagine it then ask yourself why you feel safe attacking women here.

Angels I asked you because I wanted to know (for the 3rd time) if you think innocent men should be treated negatively, because some men are guilty. It's a straightforward question, not a judgement against you. It may seem bizarre to you, but that's because we don't understand each other's viewpoint. Your views seem bizarre to me too. Help me to understand?