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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To lie about death of puppy

316 replies

Snowdropfairy85 · 04/03/2020 13:36

We are weeks away from welcoming our new puppy into our home and the breeder has just phoned to say she’s passed away. I’m absolutely gutted. We had visited the puppy several times and named her. She was just 7 weeks old. Breeder comes highly recommended, I fully checked them out. My kids are 5 & 6 and I just don’t know what to say to them. When DD’s hamster died we told her the truth and she was absolutely devastated, I’m not sure I can face telling her the puppy has died. I can’t think of a good reason to tell them as to why we aren’t bringing her home now though.

OP posts:
MingVase · 05/03/2020 06:23

Absolutely tell them the truth. I agree with @EstebanTheMagnificent and @IamtheDevilsAvocado.

lowlandLucky · 05/03/2020 08:22

clpsmum What would you have expected the OP to tell her children if the puppy had died after being with them for a few weeks ? That it had ran away or been stolen, she would have had to tell them the truth, so why not be truthful now ? If one of your very close relatives that you see often died what would you tell your child ? That they had gone on holiday and wont be back for a ver long time ? Death is part of life and the sooner you learn the easier it is in the long run

KahlanRahl · 05/03/2020 09:41

Can you say that when her brother was picked up she cried and wanted to stay with her brother so other people adopted her with your consent because you want her to be happy? Do tell tge breeder of your lie before you go there again with the kids...

StarUtopia · 05/03/2020 09:47

Oh christ, white lie definitely!

Not quite the same, but we'd picked out a lovely black kitten at the animal rescue and was due to get a phone call any minute about when we could collect. We then got a phone call to say they'd changed their minds and thought we lived too close to a main road (we didn't)

I phoned husband in a panic and said find a black kitten now!!

Kids still think the black kitten was the one they picked out. What does it matter?

All bs saying good opportunity to find out about death etc. FGS. Small kids. Let them have their innocence if they can.

Wolfiefan · 05/03/2020 10:46

@Darbs76 you’ve misunderstood. Many pedigree breeders are puppy farmers or commercial breeders.
All poo crosses will be.
KC reg and pedigree means very little. You can find pedigree dog breeders who care passionately about the breed and breed sparingly and selectively to try and produce the healthiest and best examples of the breed they can. It takes time and effort to search them out. But if you won’t rescue I believe you owe it to the potential parents and puppies to choose carefully.

claffy123 · 05/03/2020 11:03

OP, many opinions on here, with many extreme assumptions being made. Sadly puppies do die before they come to their new homes, for many reasons, one of them being that the mum can actually lie on them & suffocate them whilst she is trying to lie down to feed or sleep - they are so tiny. Many breeders won't let the puppies be allocated & bonded with until they are safely able to get themselves out the way etc, precisely for this reason. We have also pulled out of getting a puppy with a week to go because the litter had been exposed to a dangerous virus from farmland nearby and there was a likelihood that the puppies could develop paralysis etc - this was from a top class breeder who judges & exhibits regularly - these things sometimes just happen, however reputable and fastidious you are. It is obviously entirely up to you what you tell your children (I'd go with the white lie myself for children of that age - I work with 6-year-olds - I might say that I'd realised that there was an even more special puppy that I had decided to wait for or something), but you have just been really unlucky this time & I'm sure next time will be fine.

frostedviolets · 05/03/2020 11:13

Many pedigree breeders are puppy farmers or commercial breeders
True.

All poo crosses will be
A proportion of those puppies will be home bred puppies, someone’s perfectly nice friendly pet bred to their friends perfectly friendly pet for ‘just one litter’.
They are in no way comparable to puppy farmers.

KC reg and pedigree means very little
True

You can find pedigree dog breeders who care passionately about the breed and breed sparingly and selectively to try and produce the healthiest and best examples of the breed they can
You can also find people who breed non kennel club registered, non purebred dogs with the intention of producing friendly, well rounded pets.

‘Selectively’ breeding in many breeds has caused catastrophic damage, physical damage and mental damage as seen in Dobermanns, Cavaliers, your own breed the Wolfhound, German Shepherds and many others.

‘Best example’, what even is a ‘best example’?

I saw a photograph yesterday of a Basset hound who is competing at this years crufts.

He was standing on shortly mown grass and his legs were so short that his belly was touching the floor.
Is he a ‘best example’?
I think not.

Wolfiefan · 05/03/2020 11:40

Of course he isn’t.
Breeding from unhealthtested pets. Not selectively. For cash. Backyard breeders.
Avoid.

Canshopwillshop · 05/03/2020 11:42

@lowlandLucky - but the huge difference here is that the puppy wasn’t yet part of the family and they hadn’t had chance to properly bond. Clearly the situation would be different if it had died after they’d taken it home or if it was a relative!

Alsohuman · 05/03/2020 11:47

A puppy becomes part of the family psychologically from the day you choose it. A good breeder sends you pictures and updates, calls it by the name you’ve chosen and you cross the days before collection off the calendar with mounting excitement. Or at least we did and we’re not six. If ours had died before we got her I’d have been heartbroken.

eeyore228 · 05/03/2020 11:50

I would tell them the truth. There are times to avoid a discussion depending on the situation but you should respect your children to be truthful and that be reciprocated pretty much all of the time. Your children should know you respect them and are honest.

mummymeister · 05/03/2020 11:53

So, supposing you do lie about this puppy? what next? when the next pet dies what do you tell them? or when a relative dies?

Death is an integral part of life. we have to learn to be resilient about it and you dont learn by being constantly lied to. yes of course its horrible but we have to build our kids to be resilient and one way of doing that is dealing with the issues around loss and death. not lieing them away.

why is it that parents always expect their kids to be truthful about small things but cant face being truthful about the big things themselves.

you are building emotional resilience OP. you have to be short factual and honest. help with the grieving but please dont lie.

Snowdropfairy85 · 05/03/2020 12:17

When the hamster died I told my daughter straight away, I wouldn’t lie to her about her actual pet so to all those saying what would I do when the next pet dies- I’ve already dealt with that situation when the animal that lived with us for years died. I have decided with my husband that we won’t be telling them the puppy has died, it would be too traumatic and I know that when we get another puppy and bring it home my daughter will be obsessed with the fear that the puppy may die, if that puppy we bring home does by some awful chance die before old age then of course I will tell the children- it’s a different situation. There’s a lot of people telling me to avoid puppy farms- please please believe me this is exactly what I want to do. If anyone has some actual information about how I can tell who is legitimate and who isn’t I’d be really grateful. I was able to visit this poor puppy as many times as I wanted and I saw the mum and dad, I was told the certificates for health checks were in place, what do I do- I don’t want to get a dog that has been puppy farmed it’s seems it’s a minefield. And no I don’t want to get a rescue because as I said before- my friend has a rescue, they won’t tell her it’s background and now she has to keep him separate from her children. How do you know a puppy you get from a rescue hasn’t been farmed anyway?

OP posts:
SnoozyLou · 05/03/2020 12:24

My suspicion is the puppy really just didn't want to leave it's mum so the owner changed their mind about selling him.

Honest.

Yes, death is a natural part of life, blah blah. But they've just lost one pet. I really don't see the point in upsetting them over a pet that hadn't joined your family yet.

ValedictoryMessage · 05/03/2020 12:25

There are a lot of people on thse forums who are very very passionate about dogs. As am I. But I think you have done all you reasonably can to check the breeder is legit.

And I think you are absolutely right to tell a white lie to the kids. It's entirely different from a pet you've owned in the house or a relative fgs.

womenspeakout · 05/03/2020 12:35

When the hamster died I told my daughter straight away, I wouldn’t lie to her about her actual pet so to all those saying what would I do when the next pet dies- I’ve already dealt with that situation when the animal that lived with us for years died. I have decided with my husband that we won’t be telling them the puppy has died, it would be too traumatic and I know that when we get another puppy and bring it home my daughter will be obsessed with the fear that the puppy may die, if that puppy we bring home does by some awful chance die before old age then of course I will tell the children- it’s a different situation. There’s a lot of people telling me to avoid puppy farms- please please believe me this is exactly what I want to do. If anyone has some actual information about how I can tell who is legitimate and who isn’t I’d be really grateful. I was able to visit this poor puppy as many times as I wanted and I saw the mum and dad, I was told the certificates for health checks were in place, what do I do- I don’t want to get a dog that has been puppy farmed it’s seems it’s a minefield. And no I don’t want to get a rescue because as I said before- my friend has a rescue, they won’t tell her it’s background and now she has to keep him separate from her children. How do you know a puppy you get from a rescue hasn’t been farmed anyway?

Firstly, such a good call not to tell them, I'm so glad you've decided this, it really is the best (as an anxious child, I know what it would do to me) so good shout from you. I really feel you've done the right thing.

As to how do you know if a puppy is puppy farmed from a rescue, well you don't, but you are saving it and helping the rescue, not contributing money towards unethical breeders.

What breed was the puppy?

To avoid puppy farms or unethical breeders do your research on the breed. Most mixed breeds are unethically bred, so I wouldn't really touch them.
Ask to see parents health certificates, check them against the kennel club website.
How many litters does the breeder have a year? At one time? This should be an indicator, if they always have puppies to go, then it's a no go. Also if they breed multiple breeds.
You want a breeder who interviews you, if they just offer a puppy without grilling you, then that's a worry. You should feel like you've had a job interview in a way.
Are the dogs proven in any way in the show ring or agility? Or are they pets? Breeding from pets isn't great.

There's a lot of info out there, look on the KC website, they have a puppy buyers guide.

Don't be put off from rescues though. And don't rush it, you can spend time going to rescues, going to breeders and seeing the conditions the dogs are in full time.

frostedviolets · 05/03/2020 12:36

There is no way to be a certain a puppy hasn’t been farmed but ways to prevent it IMO:

  • google the name and number of the breeder and see how many adverts come up.
Lots of litters would suggest a business.
  • look carefully at the ‘mother’ dog.
She should have a saggy belly/droopy nipples and the puppies will often still be trying to drink from her.
  • if a pure breed, try to ensure they have had all of the recommended breed health tests.
Be aware that the disgusting organisation that the Kennel Club is rarely insist on the necessary health tests so it could be very difficult finding a properly tested puppy.
  • be aware that a Kennel Club registration is NOT a sign of a good breeder.
The vast, vast majority of puppy farmers KC register their puppies
  • council licenced breeders are often business breeders/puppy farmers with large numbers of breeding dogs.
  • make sure you like the personality of the mother dog as her puppies most likely will inherit a similar temperament
Canshopwillshop · 05/03/2020 12:38

Well done OP, definitely the right decision.

My 2 DC had to deal with many significant bereavements - death of all 4 grandparents, their much loved Auntie (my sister), 3 pet cats and a pet dog - all before the ages of 8 and 10 and I would 100% agree with your decision to save them from having to deal with death and heartbreak until it’s absolutely necessary which in your case it isn’t.

I’m sorry for your pup to be and wish you luck in finding a new one.

frostedviolets · 05/03/2020 12:38

Oh and IMO, don’t be put off by ‘pet’ breeders.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with a puppy from genuine family hobby breeders.

SutterCane · 05/03/2020 12:50

Snowdropfairy85 I would recommend arming yourself with as much knowledge as possible (preferably from independent sources), deciding what it is you want from a breeder (despite what some will tell you there's no one single way to do it right) and then try to find someone who meets your requirements.

The Puppy Contract covers the basics really well and it's also worth going through the links on this page as well, there's plenty more good advice on some of those. Dog Breed Health and this section of the UFAW site are very sources of information regarding health issues and health testing. I'd recommend reading the following two articles from the Institute of Canine Biology (particularly if you're considering pedigrees): COI FAQs: Understanding the Coefficient of Inbreeding and Why DNA Tests Won't Make Dogs Healthier. Finally The Puppy Plan has lots of information about puppy socialisation and will give you an idea of the sorts of things breeders should be doing to give their puppies the best start in life.

Oh and IMO, don’t be put off by ‘pet’ breeders. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a puppy from genuine family hobby breeders.

I'm absolutely with frostedviolets on this, it's entirely possible to find breeders who breed with appropriate consideration given to health and temperament, raise them well, care about where they go and will support new puppy buyers with no grander plans than just producing the odd litter of perfectly lovely family pets.

HeckyPeck · 05/03/2020 12:55

And no I don’t want to get a rescue because as I said before- my friend has a rescue, they won’t tell her it’s background and now she has to keep him separate from her children.

That’s just one dog out of thousands in rescues. Most will be able to give backgrounds.

Snowdropfairy85 · 05/03/2020 13:05

Thanks for those links @SutterCane

OP posts:
Wolfiefan · 05/03/2020 13:29

I’ve said how to find a decent breeder.
Choose an actual breed.
Contact the breed club.
Meet breeders and ask questions. See how many litters they have and how often.
Ask questions and expect to be asked lots too.
You will have to wait.
You will be expected to sign a contract. If you can’t keep the pup you have to contact the breeder, you can’t breed, you won’t export etc etc.
People who let two dogs they own have pups for cash with no thought to genetics or health testing is not the way to go.

Alsohuman · 05/03/2020 13:35

People who let two dogs they own have pups for cash with no thought to genetics or health testing is not the way to go

I completely disagree. That’s exactly the situation where we got ours. A family with two unrelated dogs of the same breed with excellent temperaments. The puppies were loved and socialised by the whole family. We absolutely couldn’t be happier, to the point whereby we’ve considering letting our little beauty have just one litter because it seems a shame not to pass her genes on.

Alsohuman · 05/03/2020 13:36

It was very clear that, had we not met the breeder’s high standards, there was no way we’d have been allowed to buy the dog. I’d be exactly the same.

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