to take my child out in the cold

[tantrumingcoldchild]

Name changed for this!

I was trying to get my 3 year old daughter to nursery by 8 am for breakfast and so that I can get on with a big work project. She had a massive strop because she wanted to have Coco Pops at home. The general tantruming lasted almost an hour.

I finally forced her into her buggy (not something I normally do), but she ripped off her sweatshirt in the process and she was only in her vest. I attempted to put her coat on over her backwards but she angrily flung it off.

Knowing that she would quickly tire of the cold, I started the 7 minute walk to nursery. There was some very light snowy rain, just a few drops here and there. A woman saw me leaving my building with my daughter flailing around and screaming in her vest, and glared at me. She had a child with her.

When I was halfway down the block, the woman came back and asked me angrily if I had seen the weather and what my child was wearing. I explained that she was having a temper tantrum and I needed to work. I said that I was going to put her coat on her when she calmed down.

The woman insisted that this wasn't good enough and continued to berate me, saying it was horrible not to dress my child. I explained that my daughter had taken her clothes off and showed her the sweatshirt and coat which were ready and waiting.

She shouted at me some more and called me a crazy bitch. I asked her what she would do if she were going to get sacked for being late (this is theoretical, as I am not going to get sacked but I do need to work and I want my daughter to understand that there are boundaries and consequences. I let her make me late way too often). She told me that she would rather lose her job than take her child out in the cold and then yelled at me some more. I lost my temper and shouted back at her and she eventually left.

My daughter was quite upset. She asked if the lady was not nice to me. I explained that the woman was angry with me for not making my daughter wear her clothes in the cold. Then my original plan came to fruition: my daughter agreed to put her top and coat on, I hugged her and said I loved her, and we walked to nursery together.

So, was I unreasonable to take my daughter out in a vest when she was having a horrible temper tantrum?

I'm laughing at posters who think you can manhandle a tantruming child into a coat. I'd have lost my front teeth if I'd tried that with DS. He used to jump up and down and wriggle even on the days he was cooperating

This. There's no way I could have got a jumper and coat on my then-3 year old and got him strapped into his buggy without doing one or both of us an injury.

I think some people have no idea just how oppositional and determined some kids can be, and that it's not possible (nor ideal) to simply overpower them with physical force. Which means you need to find other solutions.

Those saying "I wouldn't let my DC do this" haven't a clue. Lucky them. But, don't judge the rest of us. It's not your perfect parenting, it's that you're not dealing with what we are.

Love DS to bits but OMG he was oppositional as a toddler, not to mention strong. (Now I know he's autistic, his opposition nature makes a lot more sense now!)

Being out in the cold in a vest once for 7 minutes is not going to kill her or even harm her - you don't get colds from being in the cold for that time

I dealt with tantrums in exactly the same way - so tantrum getting ready - pjs on way to school - more than happy to get dressed when we got there - no time wasted

As to "you are the adult" yes and that means you make the right decision for your child and follow through if they doubt you are serious - even if it means they get cold in the rain, you do not restrain and tie down in a pushchair - far more damaging in my view that's just cruel. Far better to bring them to heel through their own decision than force

tantrumingcoldchild

So you could have forced the coat on her?

you do not restrain and tie down in a pushchair - far more damaging in my view that's just cruel. Far better to bring them to heel through their own decision than force

You bring dogs to heel. Children, you do what is best for them. In this case, forcing her coat on.

@mantarays no. We had already been in the hallway disturbing the 7 other flats with her screaming for 10 minutes. I wasn't going to extend it to the 30 that would be required to get clothes on her and strap her into the buggy again.

I wasn't going to extend it to the 30 that would be required to get clothes on her and strap her into the buggy again.

30 minutes? Behave, OP. 😂

Wow there are some sanctimonious arseholes on here today!

Still loving the fact that no-one has actually explained how to nip a tantrum in the bud though, just told OP to do it.

We’ve had similar arguments here when DD wants breakfast at home but she’s having it at nursery that day and then everything has been the end of the world. She’s often gone out without a coat or a jumper and then put them on when she’s realised she’s cold. I don’t think you did anything wrong OP, I’d have done the same thing as you and periodically asked if she wanted her jumper/coat. I actually think it’s crueller to physically hold onto a child tightly and manhandle them into clothes than it is to let them get a bit cold 🤷🏼‍♀️ But then last February my daughter refused to wear shoes and socks so was in her buggy with bare feet every time we went out. (Yes she had a blanket but she kicked it off. Yes she had shoes but they were velcro ones so she took them off. Yes she had socks but she took them off). Sometimes you have to pick your battles and let toddlers be toddlers.

If my nursery had reported me for safeguarding concerns because DD turned up without a coat then I would be quite disappointed that they don’t know her as well as I thought they did rather than thinking I’m a shit mum!

There’s a lot of smugness on this thread! Sometimes it’s a case of needs must!

As the parent of a very strong willed toddler (now a very strong willed 18 year old) you have done absolutely nothing wrong. There is no "nipping in the bud" on some occasions.
Hope you've had a brew and congratulated yourself on getting her to nursery. Ignore crazy woman.

Sometimes it’s a case of needs must!

Yes, but not in this case. The OP could have been late starting work (annoying but not a tragedy) or used force to put the clothes on the toddler. Instead she chose to take the toddler out in zero degree weather without clothes.

Wow there are some sanctimonious arseholes on here today!

😂
that's why I love MN. You have to appreciate the logic, where parents who don't believe it's right not to put a coat on a child are in the wrong. Love it.

The OP asked btw, that's why people reply....

The enormous struggle should have been in your own front porch or where you put her in the buggy. Not out on the pavement. You shouldn't have left the house in that condition.
The woman was right and you were wrong. You don't leave children to make their own decisions regarding consquences of their actions. That's why they have parents/carers.
Like I said you wouldnt let her run out in the road to teach her that getting run over is bad. Same thing. Don't make her decide. Be the parent.

One day I realised the mornings I was rushing to get to work were far far worse than those I wasnt. The common denominator in it was ME. I was trying to get everything done quicker and they didnt like it.

REmember as well she is 3 so make some adaptions for that

and truthfully sometimes I do give a biscuit just to get out of the door so it is easier sometimes to prevent the tantrum every happening by not saying no in the first place

@mantarays its around zero outside, potentially even a bit warmer. chilly, but not cold. mum had a coat and jumper with her. it was a very short trip. there was absolutely no danger to the girl, even when only wearing a vest.
if it would be -20 outside with wind/wet, it would be a different story, but it wasn’t

She can't just eat breakfast at home whenever she feels like it because this takes time that can't be spared.

I was with you until this statement. I don't think she's being unreasonable to want to eat breakfast before she leaves the house- she's probably hungry. Could you not wake her earlier so that there is time for breakfast? Or wake yourself earlier so you can do a bit of work before she gets up?

I was once told by a Maasai tribe member in Kenya that they don't stop their babies from crawling towards the fire as this is how they learn.

A little extreme I think but the reasoning is they do learn by experience. You had to get to work. At zero degrees your child will not get frostbite. Uncomfortable yes but nothing major.

I'd agree with what you did. Force into buggy strap in, put any clothes ripped off into bag on handle and off you go. Offer clothes if child begins to wail. Job done. She won't do it again.

@Bookoffacts perhaps you haven't read the part where I don't have a porch. I have a communal entryway that is shared with 7 other flats who already would have listened to 10 minutes of my daughter shrieking.

myself2020

Zero degrees is the same temperature as ice. I’m not debating whether it’s cold, I know it is.

I was once told by a Maasai tribe member in Kenya that they don't stop their babies from crawling towards the fire as this is how they learn.

They live with lions. The rules are different. We don’t have to let our children experience the world through pain.

Its the UK not Alaska! Its never that cold! a healthy 3 year old wont come to any harm in a vest outside for a few minutes and will soon realise that she should get dressed, thats how they learn!

That woman sounds nuts.

I agree, also, that she was probably hungry.

@BecauseReasons She often eats at nursery. Trust me, she wasn't starving. She refused her banana when we got there, in fact. She is just stubborn and decided she wanted Coco Pops. She also will do this at dinner - demand dessert and when I point out that she has plenty of dinner left she will say she is hungry for dessert, not dinner. The Coco Pops were the same.

You did the right thing. You are teaching your child boundaries, responsibility and consequences.

It's a common parenting method these days to teach through consequences. If you dont put your coat on, you will be cold. If you dont eat your breakfast, you will be hungry etc. Authoritatian parenting of do what I say, when as I say does not work for all children. Man handling children does not teach children anything other than to be afraid of their parents in my opinion.

But each to their own. I certainly wouldn't be stopping anyone in the street over parenting differently than me. And I certainly wouldn't be telling people on an internet forum that they should be reported to social services.

For what it's worth OP, I would have done the same as you, as knowing my child I know she would have been cold in a few minutes to put her coat on. And in the process she will have learnt to dress appropriately for the weather, rather than learning that it's ok to man handle someone against their will if they arent doing exactly what you want them to.

I have done this but not down to vest level. That is a bit cold.

I once had a young man come up to me and say my daughter needed a blanket. She won’t wear one, so she always has several layers on and she had her coat on.

I was like “ok, you are obviously a very wise man” put the blanket just lightly on her and she instantly went from happy smiling child to next level exorcist screaming, GET IT OFF MEEEEE NOW!!!! and threw it on the wet floor, writhing out of her push chair, people looking over because she sounded like she was being murdered. I said “thanks for the lovely advice mr stranger man who just saw a snapshot of my day and made a huge judgement, whats your cunning plan for calming this screaming child now seeing as you are such an excellent parent?” he muttered sorry and sloped off while people tutted at him.

Anyway, try layers that she can’t get off, that’s my advice!

I never fight with my kids about what to wear for a short time outside. They’ve worn T-shirts in winter many times and lived to tell the tale. When they start to look blue I suggest the coat again and they often agree to see sense.