to take my child out in the cold

[tantrumingcoldchild]

Name changed for this!

I was trying to get my 3 year old daughter to nursery by 8 am for breakfast and so that I can get on with a big work project. She had a massive strop because she wanted to have Coco Pops at home. The general tantruming lasted almost an hour.

I finally forced her into her buggy (not something I normally do), but she ripped off her sweatshirt in the process and she was only in her vest. I attempted to put her coat on over her backwards but she angrily flung it off.

Knowing that she would quickly tire of the cold, I started the 7 minute walk to nursery. There was some very light snowy rain, just a few drops here and there. A woman saw me leaving my building with my daughter flailing around and screaming in her vest, and glared at me. She had a child with her.

When I was halfway down the block, the woman came back and asked me angrily if I had seen the weather and what my child was wearing. I explained that she was having a temper tantrum and I needed to work. I said that I was going to put her coat on her when she calmed down.

The woman insisted that this wasn't good enough and continued to berate me, saying it was horrible not to dress my child. I explained that my daughter had taken her clothes off and showed her the sweatshirt and coat which were ready and waiting.

She shouted at me some more and called me a crazy bitch. I asked her what she would do if she were going to get sacked for being late (this is theoretical, as I am not going to get sacked but I do need to work and I want my daughter to understand that there are boundaries and consequences. I let her make me late way too often). She told me that she would rather lose her job than take her child out in the cold and then yelled at me some more. I lost my temper and shouted back at her and she eventually left.

My daughter was quite upset. She asked if the lady was not nice to me. I explained that the woman was angry with me for not making my daughter wear her clothes in the cold. Then my original plan came to fruition: my daughter agreed to put her top and coat on, I hugged her and said I loved her, and we walked to nursery together.

So, was I unreasonable to take my daughter out in a vest when she was having a horrible temper tantrum?

Gosh this is such a divisive thread! For balance - I was trying to get my three year old to put a coat on at the school gate a while back, because it had started to rain. Two mums nicely (but interferingly?!) told me to stop and take my lead from her - let her put it on when she’s cold. I did, and on the way home another mum stopped me and told me they can’t judge their own temperature until they’re older and I should have forced her.
The moral of this story is that we cannot bloody win!
OP, it took me several weeks to lay down the law on coat wearing, but we got there. Strength and fortitude to you.

You let her tantrum for an hour. That should of been nipped in the bud after 5 minutes

Awwww, bless your heart, you've obviously never dealt with a really strong willed child.

OP, I would've done the same except I wouldn't have engaged with the woman at all.

But if you let her have the coco pops in the first place ( I didn’t buy them btw, but you have) then she wouldn’t have had an hour tantrum and you wouldn’t have had to take her out in her vest.
The woman was a busybody no doubt. But pick your battles.

You were fighting a losing battle before you even set foot outside.

If she fully comprehends everything you are saying (some 3 year olds do, some don’t) then a choice/consequence with the coco pops. Nip that in the bud. 3 year olds are emotional creatures, but tantrums for an hour? No thank you. That heightened state of everything (for you too!) when they’re that intense for an hour means that to try and do anything that requires their compliance is destined to fail.

Same with outside. Wait in the cold for
2 minutes, then choice of what to wear. Failing that, chuck a warm blanket on her, tuck her in and off you go. If she pulls it off, at least you could then have something to wave it into angry woman’s face and ask her to help

We’ve all been there. In some way or another. All we can really do is learn from our experiences and decide whether we want to change it. And then do so for the future.

@PumpkinP Do you work?

@Alsohuman Yes, she did, actually. we didn't get more than a block away before she put on the coat.

about the so-called "manhandling"... how do you think people manage to change nappies of a reluctant 3 year old?

Many kids are not fully potty trained at that age (ask any school...), and you don't leave a child in a shitty nappy do you? You don't need to drug them to keep them clean, safe and comfortable

Yanbu and to the people who would have been the 'boss' of your daughter minds is similar - so I understand and empathise little dictators are hard work! I apologised to a window yesterday as I took my sunglasses off inside a dark building at the mercy of my little one haha.

Using a little bit of force as in holding her arm down so she couldn't take anything off. No smacking involved. Once in the buggy and strapped in she can't get out. If she tantrums all the way to nursery and people look let them.

An hour tantrum over coco pops is silly. You shouldn't of given in, if she was still hungry she could of eaten at nursery. How do you think people get to work on time when they have three young kids to sort out on their own in a morning. Be an adult, be a parent. Don't let a 3 year dictate how things happen.

edited by MNHQ

The woman mustn’t have children of her own or at least zero experience of toddler tantrums. You basically just do whatever you can to survive them .

You let her paddy for an hour.

Can we leave out the racist language please

Op, you did what you thought was best at the time, and your child came to no harm. That’s all any of us can do. Maybe next time you’ll do differently and maybe you won’t, but you did your best at the time. Your dd wasn’t about to melt or catch double pneumonia from being out in the cold for a short time.

I would put the other woman’s reactions down to her having her own issues and try and leave it at that.

Thats irrelevant to be honest. I wouldn’t leave the house unless my child had a coat on. Whether it made me late or not. I would have forced the coat onto her. It wouldn’t have lasted an hour because I am stronger than a 3 year old. You weren’t late and you weren’t going to be sacked so it’s irrelevant in your case as well.

I think OP is getting a hard time from some people determined to prove they've handled every situation better than anyone else ever has.

I have had a child refuse to take their coat off at 3 years old and tantrum for an hour. My 3 year old
was small for her age but strong like you wouldn't believe.

To all those posters saying you wouldn't have let them tantrum for an hour, how exactly would you have stopped it? My DD went through a stage where she was completely like a wild animal when she tantrummed - biting, scratching, thrashing. You totally couldn't reason with her until after she had calmed down.

She grew out of it.

OP, you took warm clothes with them. She had the chance to wear them. You set a good example sticking to your guns ("you can behave how you like but we are still going to do x") and no nursery in the world is going to flag a safeguarding issue for a tantrumming child, unless she's turning up in inappropriate clothing every day or showing signs of neglect.

Well done, you've had a tough morning. Treat yourself to a cup of tea and a biscuit.

no nursery in the world is going to flag a safeguarding issue for a tantrumming child, unless she's turning up in inappropriate clothing every day or showing signs of neglect.

They would, if a child turned up to nursery in this weather in a vest. It’s not about the tantrum. It’s about the willingness of the parent to let the child suffer. It’s too cold to go out naked.

Hard one, my son often has wobblers where he rips his school clothes off or refuses to get dressed for school and I have 3 other kids to get ready so I’m battling with him (additional needs) i cant physically force him to do anything as he’s big but we get there eventually and it’s happening a lot less.

If she’s particularly difficult and stubborn could you try some new tactics - I would remove the coco pops for the weekend for a while as that’s obviously a trigger for her to kick off - they’ll find any little thing to latch on to sometimes it’s exhausted. I don’t think berating a mum who had a difficult morning helpful being outside with a vest on for a short time isn’t going to harm her daughter but you need to get to the point where that last resort no longer happens. I did a parenting course for my youngest I was upset and affronted by school suggesting it but actually it was brilliant and made me think about what I say/do in front of my kids etc and really helped I also did an additional course for youngest geared towards special needs to help him. I could ask the trainers running it questions about specific situations etc if your council has a parent support team ask them for help (I’m a mum of 4 so you can never know it all and all kids are different) my youngest responds to quite different discipline methods than the other 3 I think parents need to stop being scared to ask for help, I’m taking all the help I can get just now it’s for the benefit of my child/family not me as such.

I completely agree this should have been nipped in the bud and not allowed to go for so long....

But not with the toddler - they will soon get dressed when cold and it was not cold enough to cause any harm.

But with the grown adult - you do not need to engage or have a conversation ever with anyone and you certainly did not owe her an explanation - you needed to shut her down and move on with what you know was right.

But she didn’t turn up in a vest. She calmed down and put her top and coat on en route and arrived wearing both.

Spudlet

And what would she have done if the child hadn’t calmed down?

Honestly, I think we were both quite worked up from the struggle. I didn't think it felt cold at all when we got outside and I doubt she did either. I'm also from a place where winter is much colder and this weather isn't that bad. Some kids at my school growing up would have worn shorts in this weather (but with a coat), no exaggeration.

I take the point that some people think it's objectively bad, however, which is why I asked the question.

I don't think it's right. You could use the same argument that you can't stop them about other dangerous things. Eg do you not stop her running out into the road? Grabbing a kitchen knife? Going out in vest in winter?

Be a parent or face the consquences and have SS involved. You won't be so keen on putting your job first them.

Force her little arms into her coat and speak in a very firm voice and mean it. Make her realise it isn't acceptable.

It's that she needed to have breakfast at nursery. I made it clear that she wasn't eating breakfast at home. She can't just eat breakfast at home whenever she feels like it because this takes time that can't be spared. I can't do anything about the fact that she sometimes eats breakfast at home and sometimes at nursery.

This is a difficult and grown up concept though for a 3 year old to get though. And you dont let her make you late far to often - your approach just isnt working you need to I think completely overhaul your morning routine because at the moment it isnt working

I think part of the problem here is you were stressed you wanted to get your day started and every single delay made you on edge.

So strip it right back and take it from there (and yes if a few cocopops before she goes helps). Decide on the non negotiables

@mantarays I would have taken her home or forced the coat on her (though this would have been time consuming and difficult, and involved an enormous struggle on the pavement, which wouldn't have been a great look). But I know her and I knew she would calm down once she was restrained and started to feel cold.

I don't think you did anything wrong and I'd do similar. It is not abusive or cruel. My children are allowed a different breakfast at weekends and it isn't hard for them to comprehend.

There's a lovely three year old at my daughters pre school who is often in a T-shirt whatever the weather - not annoyed or angry, just doesn't want to wear his coat. His mum always has it with her, he's a happy little thing and never occurred to me she was doing anything wrong - at 3 they are old enough to understand feeling cold and that a coat will help.

There’s no “right” thing to do sometimes. This woman sounds like a judgmental cow.

My son once ran out in the snow in a tee shirt and jeans, he used to go out without a coat all the time so I just carried until he got cold and then he would put it on. My son has never come to any harm because of the cold so your toddler will be fine.

Learn the art of blanking people, it’s very powerful.

We don’t live in a particularly cold country. A knife could cause immediate harm, most children will eventually ask for a coat and come to no harm. Some kids learn from experience and getting could will teach them the importance of clothes. If you have warm clothes with you you’re being a good parent, if your child doesn’t own any warm clothes that’s neglect.