My colleague is lying about his fathers death.

[concerned90]

I've created a throwaway account to post this, as I am concerned any colleagues who see it will be able to connect it to my previous posts about my husband/children and it will be very outing.

Some relevant back story about my colleague who we'll call Dave. Dave is a big Facebook user, an over sharer if you will. Everything about his life, his wife, his child. Dave has form for leaving work early, and has become a little infamous for it. Now, tied in with the Facebook obsession, this has proved Dave to be a liar. Two examples: Dave leaves work an hour after coming in as his son his ill. Three hours later, he uploads a photo of his son sat in McDonald's after a cinema trip. This is during the school holidays. Dave leaves work early as his son has broken his leg and he needs to get to A&E to see him. Two days later, he uploads a video of his son jumping on a trampoline. Comments confirm the video was taken that day.

For the last 4/5 months, Dave has spoken about his father being ill/having dementia. This has also been plastered all over Facebook. About a month ago, Dave comes round to every member of the team individually to let us know his father has died. We all offer our condolences, a manager even drops him home as he doesn't drive. All normal.

Dave deletes his Facebook the moment he gets home. Now this is unusual for somebody so obsessed, but perhaps he needs a break.

Dave's now used up our company bereavement policy but some emergency holiday has been arranged to allow him more time off. Dave comes back on Facebook, but no mention of his father. No comments or anything from his family/friends. No mention of the funeral. This is obviously strange for a man who has posted so much about his father, and other normally private things.

On his birthday, his mother puts a post on Facebook 'happy birthday Dave, love mum and dad'. Dave removes this from his Facebook wall so it doesn't show anymore, but as he was tagged it still shows up on our Facebook feed. We alert the manager, who expresses concern but also advises we need to tread carefully as this could just be habit from his mother as the death has been so recent. Fine.

Another colleague, who we'll call Karen returns from long term sick. Karen asks where Dave has been. We explain that his father has died. Karen posts on Dave's wall saying sorry for the loss of your dad, let me know if I can do anything.

Dave removes the post immediately. He messages Karen saying he doesn't want people knowing his business. Strange thing for a chronic over sharer to say. Dave then deletes his Facebook again.

Over the weekend, another colleague who we'll call Tim, gets into conversation with an old friend. The old friend is married to Dave's cousin. Tim says how sorry he is about the death of Dave's father. The old friend advises that as far as he knew, Dave's father has not died as they have not heard anything.

Now, in my gut I know his father has not died. My head says that all we have is circumstantial evidence, and a conversation in pub. I don't know what to do. Do I talk to senior management? Am I going to walk into a meeting and seem like a crazy person?

AIBU to come to the conclusion that his father has not died and he has taken advantage of the managers being very kind to allow him a month off when usually somebody would get 5 days?

Tell me what you think/and what I should do.

Tell your management what you know then keep out of it it’s up to them how they manage it.

People are crazy though We had someone at my business join us then have lots of time off, mother died, girlfriend difficult then lost pregnancy, a lot of home working etc turned out he just hadn’t left his previous employer and was trying to hold down 2 ft jobs by telling the most awful lies. Ended up sacked from both.

We don't know he is lying, and so what, management are informed, they can do their job they are paid to do, and manage

I think a lot of people are not factoring in the demotivating effect of having a compulsive liar and abuser of time off policies on other staff. Of course OP is over invested, it's bloody annoying to work with a slacker who tells abominable lies.

In my staff's contracts this is gross misconduct and he'd get a warning. I hope this guy does. It is terrible for the workplace and atmosphere and this would be my second priority, after confirming the facts.

We alert the manager, who expresses concern but also advises we need to tread carefully as this could just be habit from his mother as the death has been so recent. Fine.

Do this, basically the manager has said leave it. You'd be sensible to listen. You don't know that they aren't doing something already and if they are, you won't be party to that and rightly so.

I understand wanting what he's done to get out - it's a disgusting thing to do. But I agree you could end up looking bad yourself if you say anything.

It's bound to come out eventually, he sounds like a spectacularly bad liar - but unless you come across irrefutable evidence I'd keep your mouth shut.

If you’re not his line manager, then the only bit of this which is any of your business in a work context is the impact that Dave’s extended absences are having on your ability to do your job. Management know what you have told them and it’s up to them to follow up on the lying/cheating the system if they want to, so your focus in conversation with them should be about how you manage the work that Dave would normally do.

It’s perfectly fine to go to them to ask for advice on how you should prioritise, or what should be dropped to make room to do some of Dave’s work, given that you obviously can’t do two people’s jobs. But you don’t have any locus in investigating his behaviour and honesty. If it’s all as blatant as you say then he’s not even trying to hide it, so sooner or later it will catch up with him, with or without your help.

Personally I'd step back and leave it. If he has lied (and there isn't complete proof) that's horrible. He will be found out eventually. However, you seem over-invested in this, I'd be keeping out of it. Management are aware of some issues, it's down to them to handle it. Clearly, even without his father dying, he has massive issues.

So true you wouldn't get away with it in Ireland.. We had a student who lied about an Aunt death and had to leave work Friday. That would be your Aunt married to my wife's 2nd cousin, would it?

Do your managers really let staff take extended bereavement leave without seeing a copy of the death certificate?

Are death certificates matters of public record ... in which case you can look this up.

If he has been lying to get extra leave as it looks v much like ... have you an HR dept you can take advice from? Sounds like he is very much on a warning for stealing time.

First, second, final warning? What do you think? How is he going to give days taken back ... deduct from annual leave? Put on performance measures for attendance and records kept. Seek advice and then have the meeting. Document everything ... I would envisage he will play the mental health card, so prepare for this ... could be genuine in which case documented support etc or it could be more deceptiveness ... trip to occupational health etc.

I don't get the thing about Ireland. Why would someone get more time off?

Said the boss on signing off the leave

@concerned90

You're getting a really hard time here, completely unjustified IMHO.

I don't really have any advice, but I wanted to say I think it's fair to be pissed off about this.

His father can't die twice and if he's lying then he's used up his bereavement leave.You're very invested in this , the man obviously has problems and getting him sacked won't help anyone.Move on and spend your energy elsewhere.

You get time for a removal and funeral which is a day or so after death so you go short notice and most employees are ok with this. The point is everybody knows everybody and all deaths are on local radio in rural areas and on RIP.ie.

@concerned90, unfortunately, I worked with someone who lied not just about 1 but several family and extended family members dying over the years. He was a very charming person but you could not trust him as far as you could throw him. He eventually was dismissed after being found out defrauding the company. He knew that death was such a personal matter nobody would really question it.

Tell your boss, confidentiality, what your concerns are then walk away.

I'm a bit of an oversharer, but you won't find a thing about my mums death on any social media as she specifically asked me not to post anything about it before she died. Maybe Daves mum has asked him to keep it offline knowing he's an oversharer?

I do think that you need to stay out of it, you've raised a concern and that's as far as you and any of your colleagues need to take it.

@Theukisgreatt "@whatnow40 even if someone just had a regular doctors appointment?!"

Yes, I always ask for an appointment card, stamped by the drs office/receptionist. I've only ever had 2 people take offence to this request. Both happened to be for appointments on a Friday afternoon and both mysteriously were no longer needed.

Not everyone is a piss taker, but for consistency I ask evidence from everyone. I'm not going to pick and choose who I suspect is taking the piss, and everyone who works for me knows what to expect. I don't single anyone out and don't bully. Just gather evidence and run a tight ship.

I personally wouldn’t make a big dance to the whole office, but I would ask for a chat with management. It’s sounds like they also have suspicions.

They can then proceed however they wish. I expect he may be asked to provide a death certificate and something from the funeral. I had to provide a funeral order of service once when it was a slightly obscure relative that I wanted a day off for.

My dad died in the August and my mum still signed my birthday card from them both in the September so I wouldn’t put any weight behind that.
I was off a little while back after the sudden death of my brother. I couldn’t have provided the death certificate. I never even had sight of it. It was given to my SIL.

It is not unknown for employees to ask for a day off for a funeral that isn't actually happening. Occasionally they can't keep their own story straight and dob themselves in by asking for a day off for the same relative years apart! The long period of leave in this case I can see would irritate their colleagues if they doubted it was true.

However - you don't have a lot of evidence to show that his father is alive tbh! You've told your manager and have been told to back off. It does seem as if the main motivation behind this is to catch him out and that's not really your concern OP. As a few PP have mentioned, if it is a lie and you catch him out you won't be considered as the new Sherlock Holmes here, and you won't come out of it well at all. Let him dob himself in. I appreciate it is annoying if you are covering his work, but you need to let it go for now.

Payroclus, I know, rather optimistic of me :)
How much are the beans going for??

I would say that if he's not pulling his weight when he is there then you have no reason to protect him. You need somebody in your team that you can rely on.

However, I think you need firm proof. Can you get the cousin to confirm?