My 11 year old son upset a woman by standing up to her.

[Ginette74]

At a bouncy castle holiday activity, in a local community centre, my son overheard a woman saying loudly that his brother, and his friend, who both happen to have special educational needs, were idiots and bad children. My 11 year old challenged her, saying not to be unkind, and the women became very angry with me. She said my son was cheeky and rude, and did I have no control over him! I have always taught my son to be brave and stand up for his friends and what is right. I've never taught him that it is wrong to stand up to adults, but this situation hasn't occurred before. I'm I being unreasonable to tell my son that adults are not always right and you are not wrong to challenge them.

As a parent of kids with SN can i just say to alot of you how often they dont actually have to do anything 'wrong' except look or act just a little different to provoke reactions like this from adults.
Therecis acreal world and MN presumption that the 'SN' kids did it or were dbeing badly behaved or weren't being suoervised properly thatscoften associsted with a feeling that SN parents use it as a get iyt clause for lazy parenting.
I'm sure it dies happen but inmy experience it is so often NT children bulling or beibg general twats thats the issue.

I’m on the fence about this specific scenario, but in general I disagree that it’s a good idea to actively teach kids to pull strangers up on their behaviour in settings like the one described in the OP - by doing that you’re encouraging a child to expose themselves to an unknown risk from the adult who is already behaving badly. Far better for the child to bring it to the attention of the adult they are with and let that adult deal with it on a peer to peer basis IMO.

By disagreement, do you mean your kid walloped another kid?

That’s what I’m assuming as well.

If their SEN is not apparent to the casual observer, their behaviour was clearly pretty bad and she said it as she saw it. You didn’t see it, op, so maybe you’re already biased on account of your son’s extra needs?
It’s not a free pass to behave as you wish.

I'd done my best to calm him down, the children whose parents were observing, seemed to be telling on our boys frequently, around this time, the incident happened, and then I took both of my boys out of the session. it was a real shame for it to end like that. But in my view the whole session would have worked much better if all the parents had stayed in the café and left supervision to the staff.

But the staff clearly weren't supervising very well, otherwise the parents wouldn't have to keep complaining, surely?

On the fence.
You’ve said that they sometimes hit other children.
My nephew has autism, ADD and GDD. He sometimes hits.
His mother would never go and sit in a café and leave staff to supervise, because she knows that in an over stimulated situation (which a bouncy castle definitely is for him) he’s high risk of hitting, or shoving, and shouting at another child.

You say that other parents were “telling on” your younger son and his friend frequently - why would they if there wasn’t something to tell on?

My nephew’s needs are not about children squabbling and working it out between them. What other kids can learn from being with him, is how to recognise over stimulation vs bad behaviour. His school peers are very good at knowing when to alert a teacher, and not react to him shoving them, for example. But that’s not something children learn in an unsupported environment without the parent supervising.

I think it’s great that your 11yo stuck up for them. I think other parents shouldn’t refer to a child as bad, or idiots. I’ve never referred to a child as bad to a friend - but honestly, I’ve quietly said things like, “I hope that bloody idiot moves to a different trampoline soon!” about a child shoving mine, before.

So I think to come off the fence I’d need to know what your son actually said - and why it was him out there saying it, and not you.

Why are are you assuming the OP's child hit anyone - and most SN are quite readily observable - heck 10 year olds spot my 10 years olds social disablity in about 3 minutes. Some are incredibly inclusive and kind a small minority zoom in on the vunerablity and behave appalingly.

Or to put this in the most likely context.

Your son and his friend were behaving poorly. The fact that a number of children were by your admission ‘telling on them’ strongly points to this.
Assuming they do not have a visible special need such as Down’s syndrome this woman who had no idea they had special needs told her own children to not worry about the poorly behaving children as they were idiots and bad children. They were clearly behaving badly so the woman was pretty much right with the caveat that she should probably have said ‘behaving like idiots/ bad children’
Your son took it upon himself to correct an adult who was pointing out an uncomfortable truth about your son.
Her opinion was perhaps a little bit rude but most likely correct in the circumstances.
I suggest you work on controlling the behaviour of your younger child so your older child doesn’t have to be defending the indefensible.

Gamble66, I'm assuming the PP thinks that because the OP said....

They were no worst than the other children, the only thing is that sometimes when they are goaded verbally by other children they might respond physically (with a wallop), of course I will always address this if it happens.

Op said herself her son often wallops other children if they’ve annoyed him, Gamble. She wasn’t watching him today so has no idea whether it happened then or not.

I would not be happy to hear my child challenging an adult in this situation. It’s not his place.

Just to add I think the challenging adults is fine if there is no context to the person’s unkindness. For example I would be proud if my child corrected an adult commenting on a child’s physical or mental disability or disfigurement in an unkind way.

This situation is entirely different.

I would be more than happy for my children to challenge any other person, irrespective of age, for unkind, unjust or discriminatory language or behaviour.

We all have a social responsibility to challenge language and behaviour that’s unjust or damaging.

My child would be receiving a special treat for standing up for their sibling.

Btw, I very much doubt when your 11 year old challenged the woman, it was with the words “Please don’t be unkind”. You weren’t a witness to that either, so you’ve no idea how he mouthed off. Just as you’ve no idea what your younger child’s behaviour was really like.
Pretty bad, I’d imagine, if there were multiple complaints. And then the woman gets another member of your family taking her to task about getting irate!
Soft play clearly isn’t the place for you if you’re going to sit out of sight in the cafe and let them slug it out unsupervised.

Did your son overhear this woman call your younger son and his friend idiots to their faces, or was she just commenting on their behaviour to someone else?

The only U one is that woman. Your DS? Good work lad. Good work.

So, knowing your child has the habit of hitting when he’s frustrated, you sit in the cafe and don’t supervise! And then come on here looking to be told what a wonderful parent you are... 🤣

pinky actually I think it’s more important that we stand up to poor behaviour from children and parents who ignore it than that we stand up to adults who are commenting on that poor behaviour....

Hmmm depends what your kids were getting up to... sounds like you know they can get into trouble but you chose to sit in the cafe and hope the staff would supervise them and sort out any issues. I think that decision backfired a bit.

Missed that! - op if you have a SN child that 'wallops' - 'bloody awful word for hitting someone' - what were you doing leaving them unsupported in an unstructred physical play session?

YABU You say yourself your kids were lashing out at others that said something they didn't like and you left them too it, expecting the staff to deal with it. The woman had complained to st the staff about your kids' behaviour several times already and you did nothing.

Special needs is not an excuse for bad behaviour. If your son is hitting other kids, you watch him like a hawk so he can't. I have 2 autistic children and I would never leave them like that so I could sit in a cafe with my mate.

We’ve been in the situation where a few people made complaints to staff at the zoo about my autistic child’s vocal tic, she can not help nor control it. She is a wheelchair user, very obviously has additional needs due to stimming, vocal and motor tics.

Just because someone complained about my child being excited to see an animal at the zoo doesn’t mean they were right and just to do so, does it?

Some of you seem to be suggesting that the sheer fact that people complained about the op’s you get son simply must mean that her little boys behaviour was awful. No, some adults are just ignorant arseholes.

(Though I’m sure someone will come along criticising me for the audacity of taking my little girl to the zoo and her making noises).

Btw, I very much doubt when your 11 year old challenged the woman, it was with the words “Please don’t be unkind”. You weren’t a witness to that either, so you’ve no idea how he mouthed off. Just as you’ve no idea what your younger child’s behaviour was really like. Pretty bad, I’d imagine, if there were multiple complaints. And then the woman gets another member of your family taking her to task about getting irate! Soft play clearly isn’t the place for you if you’re going to sit out of sight in the cafe and let them slug it out unsupervised

This

I have absolutely no problems with my kids standing up to adults when they are in the right.
But it is always easier to back them when you have seen what has happened.